6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark? - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

Hi guys, I have received a query about the 6309 daily accuracy/timekeeping. What is considered the outside bench mark if there is one , bearing in mind the watch has been serviced but is 33 years old.
I should add that said watch is running consistantly 25 seconds fast in 24 hours. My initial thoughts is that it just needs regulating to run a little slower.
Many thanks. Kev
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

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Originally Posted by Bubblehead
Hi guys, I have received a query about the 6309 daily accuracy/timekeeping. What is considered the outside bench mark if there is one , bearing in mind the watch has been serviced but is 33 years old.
I should add that said watch is running consistantly 25 seconds fast in 24 hours. My initial thoughts is that it just needs regulating to run a little slower.
Many thanks. Kev
Regulation works wonders... my 6309 (1981) was running about 2 mins fast, I would set it 2 mins behind just so it could catch up the next day... I regulated it last week, it's now running about 2 seconds behind against my aqualand duplex in a 24 hour period, 4 days later is off by a total of 6 secs... got really lucky on the adjustment ,I guess. I am actually amazed at the accuracy as I was shooting for something in the 20sec/ day range.
Rob.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

Hi Rob, many thanks for the reply. Will test it over the next week and see if it settles down, watch hasnt been used for a few months.Regards.Kev
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

I set my Bulova Marine Star C876763 48 days ago and it is now 1 second fast.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

With a bit of regulating you can achieve good results with a 6309 movement, if as you state the gain is pretty constant from day to day.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

IMHO it all depends on the movement (obviously) and also on the "service".


The movement:
  • A genuine NOS unused movement that has been stored for 30 years? just requires a clean and new oil (but will be fine without generally)and will more than likely be the best movement you will have.

  • A movement from a watch that has perhaps had minimal use (stored) will after a clean and oil be normally a fine movement.

  • A well used but unabused movement that has perhaps had a service or two will generally run ok after a clean and oil but won't be as good as the two above.

  • A movement that has perhaps been run and run with perhaps the odd poor service or lived in a poor climate such has one of the HHCs will even after a new service and oil will run but never be that great and consistent (imo).


Then imo there are services and there are overhauls/rebuilds.

  • IMO it dosent matter how good you "service" and oil a old worn out movement the worn out parts will always be worn out, it will run and perhaps be ok but it will only be ok and often run irregular and be more susceptible to how it is worn, stored over night, work patterns and temperature changes etc etc etc.

  • Then there are services which include partial overhauls by that i mean replacing some parts with NOS parts if available while cleaning and oiling which is what many of us do i suspect and these movements will often run well or very well.

  • Then there is the full overhaul which would i assume would mean that all moving parts are replaced with NOS, all jewels are renewed, new mainspring and perhaps the addition of extra jewels if location bores are worn on such has the main plate, bridge etc etc, hopefully a movement that has gone through this will be as good and perhaps better than a NOS ?


So all this ramble above is basically it depends on the movement you have and the variation can be wide between all of them.


I have just fitted a genuine 6309 OEM NOS movement to a mod of mine and i have only had two 6309 movements nearly as good as this one in the past,
  • Amplitude around 260
    Beat error 0.2
    Rate well within 2 seconds in five positions
I now wish i had not used it and just saved it for..........the future


Obviously the above is just my thoughts and observations made from my limited experience.











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Old 10-08-2012, 05:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

Wow John, that is a great explanation and maybe should be a sticky as I guess as time goes by 6309 movements are getting older and the question is likely to crop up. The watch I had in mind is your average unabused 33 year old seiko it had a service about 18 months ago but its been consistantly 25 seconds fast every day. At this point, no attempt has been made to regulate it for better time. It may well be that accuracy could be fine tuned. My personal view of a watch that old is to leave well enough alone and live with the consistant 25 fast per day. Many thanks for the detailed answer though. Kev
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

In my experience Kev even though i have a Timegrapher(great bit of kit), regulating can take a couple of weeks or so, if the watch is for myself and i have the time and inclination i will first of all set it the best i can on the Timegrapher then wear it 24/7 and note the timekeeping over a couple of days and if a error is consistent then adjust again using the Timegrapher and so on until i feel i have got it to the best of my ability or the best the movement will take and leave it at that but we have to remember that some of the movements we are tinkering with are 30/40 years old.


I must admit when i read of such has a 6309/6105 being accurate to within a couple of seconds a month i am a little "surprised" to say the least but..........thats Seiko
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

I'm happy if my manual / auto watches are within 1 min (either way) every 3/4 days.
My customers seem happy with that and they've not complained of missing buses etc

Paul
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

I am a bit of a novice here in that I do not yet know how to regulate a watch. but in addition I would point out that for our normal daily needs and putting aside bragging rights accuracy to less than a minute a day will serve your needs for an auto wind. With fiddling you can probably get better but I would not worry too much if you don't as maybe the movement is well used. Accuracy is very important to the watch maker and to event timers but to we normal mortals who regulate our days to the nears half hour or so a little fast is a small price to pay for a piece of seiko or what ever history. I get a charge out of my forty three year old grand seiko which is rated for plus five minus three seconds a day but is now probably more like ten seconds a day. So i reset it every week or so. Ok I know I am the anti christ for preaching super accuracy is over rated but hey if you want super accuracy you can get a nice quartz watch.
Bottom line if its consistent you can maybe tweak some more out of it but if not don't shed any tears and enjoy your watch.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:11 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor
I'm happy if my manual / auto watches are within 1 min (either way) every 3/4 days.
My customers seem happy with that and they've not complained of missing buses etc

Paul
I brought a 6309-7049 a while ago. I where it in rotation with my Citizen Promaster & its about 2 half mins fast in 24 hours. However on a resent dive trip to Cyprus & had it on my wrist 24/7 for the whole week. I dived with it (Max depth was 41.2 meters) , went out trecking in the hills with it & cycled with it on. By the end of the week it was only running 1 minute fast. I can live with that! Love this watch more now then when I first got it .
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

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Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
....so, if the watch is for myself and i have the time and [color=green]inclination i will first of all set it the best i can on the Timegrapher......
Amen!

Speaking of vintage Seiko's and timegraphers, I have found (rather unsurprisingly) that the higher grade the movement is, the smaller the deviation between different positions. Generally with a vintage workhorse type Seiko movement after a clean and lube I'm not that bothered with how small the spd gain or loss is so long as the average gain is about 10 secs greater than the average loss in the various positions. I try and aim for as small a beat error and as large an amplitude as I can.

I have just serviced a vintage Regency 17 jewel with a handwinding movement of unkown (to me) origin, save for the fact it has 'Japan' on the mainspring barrels winding wheel. It's surprising even with a cheap mass produced movement like this the results you can get with a methodical service. It's currently +7 seconds in 36 hours on the wrist.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309-7049 Accuracy bench mark?

I'm really a novice but must agree with the Tiger in that it could take a while to get the optimum gain or loss.
Several years ago I bought a 7S26-0020 in the middle east. When I got home it was running silly fast, so sent it to Seiko UK. It came back better but not that good (2 mins gain/day)
So I had a go myself & over a period of about 10 days (just moving the + - inside) I got it to within 15/20 secs a day.
Similarly recently did the same thing with one of my 6309-7040s. It does take patience though.
Good luck.
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