Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume' - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Gentlemen,

this issue was discussed before, but I would like to briefly touch it again.
As is widely known, the JDM models came with an H-link bracelet with speedtimer clasp (XGA261), while the general opinion is that the export models were fitted with the 'fishbone' bracelet (Z039). Both bracelets are non-Stelux marked.

However, there is IMO one more bracelet that was more or less original to the Kakume export models - a Stelux bracelet (see pictures attached). It is periodically correct, plus I have seen it on too many 6138-003s to consider them all fitted with the same aftermarket bracelet.

As typical for the Stelux bracelets, it does not have a reference number. What is strange however, is that the bracelet does not have flush-fit end links but is straight-ended as typical for watches with hooded lugs.

I must also add that this bracelet was on the single-owner 6138-0030 that I bought 3 years ago, starting this whole madness.

What would you think?


Best,
Hermann
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 2.jpg (27.9 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 21.jpg (25.0 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 22.jpg (26.3 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 2.jpg (27.9 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 21.jpg (25.0 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 22.jpg (26.3 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 2.jpg (27.9 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 21.jpg (25.0 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg 6138-003 Stelux 22.jpg (26.3 KB, 55 views)
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Interesting issue,
any opinion over there?? I´ve seen a few of them with this bracelet fitted as well.....
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

My 0.02 is that it is not original. While I have seen some examples on this bracelet on the Kakume, there are not IMHO enough examples of watches that are in excellent condition that are seen wearing this. The point being most of the watches (yours is an exception), were pretty trashed, which implies a higher likelihood of it possibly being changed out at some point due to wear.


Also, while I think the bracelet generally suits the watch, it would be very un-Seiko like to have a case that it could be argued was designed for end-pieces, to suddenly be equipped with straight ends that break the aesthetics of the case design, IMHO of course... I can not think of another example of this occurring with Seiko?



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Old 07-21-2012, 05:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technoman
Also, while I think the bracelet generally suits the watch, it would be very un-Seiko like to have a case that it could be argued was designed for end-pieces, to suddenly be equipped with straight ends that break the aesthetics of the case design, IMHO of course... I can not think of another example of this occurring with Seiko?
AJ,

the more I think about it, the more I would consider it to be original. I also discussed this issue with a well known (and respected) Philippine seller and he reckons that in his last seven years of watch trading, approx. 50 (!) 6138-0030s with this bracelet have passed thru his hands - he also considers it to be original.

What makes me wonder is the fact that I haven't seen any other Stelux bracelet on that watch, despite the fact that a general export version exists - for which there usually was a Stelux bracelet. My hypothesis is a little thin though, I know...

Just like you however, I would (if the bracelet were indeed original) wonder why Stelux did not manufacture a bracelet with fitting end links. I must add however, that while this is not common, it was also the case on other watches - a quick search did not produce a lot, but an example of two calibre 61 JDM sports divers is attached with considerable gap between the case and the straight ended-bracelet.

Best,
Hermann
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Calibre 61 JDM sports divers.JPG (36.9 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg Calibre 61 JDM sports divers.JPG (36.9 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg Calibre 61 JDM sports divers.JPG (36.9 KB, 55 views)
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

I am the confirmed third owner of such a watch. It was bought new with that stelux bracelet. The second owner was also a collector who made sure the watch was /is original. Tomorrow I'll add a pic
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'


Lol, I was going to post that pic as I found it earlier as well to demonstrate I was wrong.


Great points as always Hermann. I fear as with most things Seiko, it will be hard to establish an irrefutable answer one way or another..


Out of curiosity, is this bracelet essentially identical to the 6139-7080?


AJ





Quote:
Originally Posted by StartSomething

AJ,

the more I think about it, the more I would consider it to be original. I also discussed this issue with a well known (and respected) Philippine seller and he reckons that in his last seven years of watch trading, approx. 50 (!) 6138-0030s with this bracelet have passed thru his hands - he also considers it to be original.

What makes me wonder is the fact that I haven't seen any other Stelux bracelet on that watch, despite the fact that a general export version exists - for which there usually was a Stelux bracelet. My hypothesis is a little thin though, I know...

Just like you however, I would (if the bracelet were indeed original) wonder why Stelux did not manufacture a bracelet with fitting end links. I must add however, that while this is not common, it was also the case on other watches - a quick search did not produce a lot, but an example of two calibre 61 JDM sports divers is attached with considerable gap between the case and the straight ended-bracelet.

Best,
Hermann
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Allright, this one was bought with this bracelet, sold to a collector by the original owner. The buyer asked if the bracelet was original. I bought the watch from the collector. The watch was bought in the Netherlands. (at least in Europe)





Check out the wear on the lug, from the edge of the bracelet.



Caseback




The bracelet is "european sized" meaning I even had to remove some links for my wrist




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Old 07-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Martijn,

many thanks for sharing the pictures (and of course the caseback :-))

I must admit that while my watch came on exactly that bracelet, it was the discussions here at the SCWF that made me try to find a 'Fishbone' bracelet as replacement!!



Well, seems that while I have only one 6138-0030 (the 'Kakume' export version, other versions remain to be found) I now have all three bracelet variants in my parts drawer to put on that watch

Best,
Hermann
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

I'm just necro-ing this thead because I've just received by 6138-0030 and it came on the solid chunky straight-end Stelux bracelet. I can confirm it is definately not the original bracelet because there is clear lug wear underneath, meaning it definately had end pieces. I'm thinking perhaps the original bracelet had a high breakage rate, so they swapped over with the solid link piece at the service centre. I've doctored up some end links and borrowed the bracelet from my 6139-7080 in this photo.


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Old 09-15-2012, 06:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Adrian,

that is a very nice watch you have here, many thanks for sharing!

As for the wear on the lugs on your watch: are you confident that the watch came from its first owner?
If not, I think it is easily possible that someone fitted the Stelux bracelet to a watch that BEFORE had the fishbone or H-link fitted (meaning in the last couple of years).

As I wrote earlier, my watch was definitely first-owner when I bought it and it had the Stelux fitted right from when the owner bought it new.

Best,
Hermann
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Old 09-16-2012, 04:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Quote:
Originally Posted by StartSomething
Adrian,

that is a very nice watch you have here, many thanks for sharing!

As for the wear on the lugs on your watch: are you confident that the watch came from its first owner?
If not, I think it is easily possible that someone fitted the Stelux bracelet to a watch that BEFORE had the fishbone or H-link fitted (meaning in the last couple of years).

As I wrote earlier, my watch was definitely first-owner when I bought it and it had the Stelux fitted right from when the owner bought it new.

Best,
Hermann
Hi Hermann,

The lug wear looks like it is very old, and has been rubbed "shiny" again because it has not been rubbed on for some time. I have a few other pieces similar, and some with "fresh" lug wear. Your theory is definately possible, but the way these bracelets sit just doesn't seem right to me.

I will contact the seller to ask the history of the piece. Maybe some light can be shed on the matter.

In any case, I'm on the hunt for some end pieces as I don't like the aftermarket look of missing end pieces.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:01 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

OK, confirmed from the seller this piece came from an estate sale. So he didn't know any other history.
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Original bracelets for 6138-003 'Kakume'

Thought you might like to see my Kakume for reference the same year and month of manufacture & identical watch and bracelet as far as I can see.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg My Kakume 3N4142 Strap.jpg (272.8 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg My Kakume 3N4142 Back.jpg (236.4 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg My Kakume 3N4142.jpg (201.8 KB, 29 views)
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Stelex Bracelet - Original

Hi, I have this watch, it is from my Uncle (who died when he was 21 and received this watch on his 18th birthday). I have had it ever since (sitting in a draw in all orginal condition with no aftermarket parts) as such I believe this is the original band for this watch.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default

Interesting news. My Kakume did come on the same bracelet and I was wondering because of the „missing endlinks“. Happy to know that I got the original bracelet.
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