With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about.......... - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

what about genuine "rare" OEM dials that have been refinished by a dial renovating company ?


Whats are your thoughts on them ?
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

Seiko dials? Renovated with any licence from Seiko Corp.?
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

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Originally Posted by Kraftwerck
Seiko dials? Renovated with any licence from Seiko Corp.?

In this case yes Seiko dials but they could be any make of dial restored by a professional dial restoring company, as genuine NOS or even very nice dials are getting harder to source this could be the next option.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

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Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
what about genuine "rare" OEM dials that have been refinished by a dial renovating company ?


Whats are your thoughts on them ?
If they have been anything other than cleaned they wouldnt be OEM would they?
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
what about genuine "rare" OEM dials that have been refinished by a dial renovating company ?


Whats are your thoughts on them ?

If the dials are refinished as faithfully as possible; ie using original good dials to do 'tampon' printing; then there should be no problem with them because the original IP is still being used and on the OEM dial itself.


The crap that is flowing out of the intellectual properties entrepreneurs's shop are pure fakes, no matter what they are printed on because Seiko never designed, manufactured, marketed or sold them.


Unfortunately, properly reprinted dials often get lost in the shuffle and end up being sold as original; so there is the same risk as AM ones being hustled as genuine ???

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

To me it would be like repainting a car. It would be okay if done correctly. I have never seen a redial done to a high standard on a Seiko, but from what I understand this process is pretty common with the vintage Swiss stuff.

Not sure how those guys feel about it...
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

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Originally Posted by Cobrajet25
To me it would be like repainting a car. It would be okay if done correctly. I have never seen a redial done to a high standard on a Seiko, but from what I understand this process is pretty common with the vintage Swiss stuff.

Not sure how those guys feel about it...
Cobrajet,

It's kind of funny I thought about cars before I got down to your post. I used to do automotive restoration work. Some autos that come out of restoration look better than original factory finish and fit, such as door jam widths and body being straight.

Watch dials are different I think? May be not? I am unsure.

Mark
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobrajet25
To me it would be like repainting a car. It would be okay if done correctly. I have never seen a redial done to a high standard on a Seiko, but from what I understand this process is pretty common with the vintage Swiss stuff.

Not sure how those guys feel about it...
they would rather leave their watch in the sock drawer for decades until they found the right, 100% original dial. for me, no matter the watch make, whether the watch costs $10,000 or 100, the dial has to be 100% original. the dial "IS" the watch i'd probably keep the watch in the sock drawer also until i found an original dial.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

An interesting question John.

Surely to qualify for NOS a dial or anything else for that matter should be exactly that - untouched, unmolested and exactly as it left the factory with perhaps a light clean being allowed. If the dial has been refinished in anyway it should be advertised as a refinished dial as it will no longer be the dial that was originally manufactured by Seiko or Rolex etc but a facsimile of the original component.

When refinishing what should be allowed ?

Should the part still carry original manufacturing flaws such as misaligned indices. Should lume be replaced with a modern alternative & what about paint ? Originally most dials would have been finished in a cellulose based finish but nowadays this would probably have to be a water based finish. Colour is the next problem ....black isn't just black so who knows what the correct formulation is ?

Should original manufacturing marks on the rear of the dial be kept plus the overspray to the reverse ?

The list of questions can become endless.

We've all seen the poorly refinished 'original' red 6309 dials that come from India which shows just how many people believe that they can hoodwink us. Professionally finished Swiss dials are very good but are still not the original dial unless supplied by the original manufacturer but even then they may devalue the piece.

The analogy with cars is very good but is an even bigger minefield. I've been following closely the restoration of a Ferrari to original spec...now that really is anal ! Even the quality of welds has to be as poor as the original ones and paint finished as poor otherwise it would lose 'restoration points' !!!

Stroll on ......
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: With the ongoing subject of fake and after market dials etc what about..........

Omega,TAG and Rolex Dials get done so why not Seiko,Its just getting the right work done by the right Guy in my opinion.
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