Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore - Page 3 - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:31 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore


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Old 03-04-2012, 01:44 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Quote:
Originally Posted by thanapa
Alex, is that bracele t original to the watch? I can't seem to find the picture in the archived Seiko catalogs..

No, the bracelet was one I had lying around when I took the photos, think it was off a 5xxx, but couldnt tell you for sure...in fact the watch is now on an original bracelet of the correct type.


The ones that sophon and his ilk sell with this watch are the correct style, but newly made, for a while I even toyed with the idea of getting one for my watch, but in the end I decided


1. To keep it as original as possible


And


2. Not to give him any of my hard earned $$$
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:18 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

OK, trying to think positive.....

Are they making the movement as well, or are they using an existing genuine Seiko 6138?
If they are making the movement as well, does this mean we will be able to buy spare parts new such as the chrono column wheels that do wear out?
If we can buy spares like this at least we can turn this sorry affair into a positive........possibly..........
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:48 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Russel, from the ones I have seen, the movement looks original to a tee albeit, used. I remember someone mentioned about bellmatics prices going up the roof, as well as vintage divers where it seems someone is buying them all up.

I think this is a sinister plot in re-manufacturing all these classics for the world consumption.

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:54 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

:'(
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:37 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

There's a web site here in the UK www.retro-watches.co.uk who is selling what he says are NOS seiko's he has one of these 6138's i have to say that he does state that it has aftermarket parts but it's making me think about the other stuff he's selling ,like the NOS stelux 6139 bracelets i bought from him.

Jim
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:49 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

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Originally Posted by jimmy1963
There's a web site here in the UK www.retro-watches.co.uk who is selling what he says are NOS seiko's he has one of these 6138's i have to say that he does state that it has aftermarket parts but it's making me think about the other stuff he's selling ,like the NOS stelux 6139 bracelets i bought from him.

Jim
Jim, I am pretty new to watch collecting and have never seen this site before, can it be true that this seller has access to so many NOS watches? I have been trawling the net night and day for weeks looking for interesting pieces and he has 4 or 5 NOS vintage Seikos on one page!!!

Maybe he has a access to sources or many many years of experience but my gut feeling tells me otherwise. Very interesting.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:11 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1963
There's a web site here in the UK www.retro-watches.co.uk who is selling what he says are NOS seiko's he has one of these 6138's i have to say that he does state that it has aftermarket parts but it's making me think about the other stuff he's selling ,like the NOS stelux 6139 bracelets i bought from him.

Jim

Check out the caseback on that one....


Surprise...We should probably let the seller know...[img]
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:13 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1963
There's a web site here in the UK www.retro-watches.co.uk who is selling what he says are NOS seiko's he has one of these 6138's i have to say that he does state that it has aftermarket parts but it's making me think about the other stuff he's selling ,like the NOS stelux 6139 bracelets i bought from him.

Jim

There are a few sellers and areas i would never buy from and this guy is one, his stuff could be or could not be kosher but he has always been on my "black" list.




Thats why i am much happier picking something up like this at least you can be 90% sure it is the real thing complete with grunge etc
[IMG]
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:18 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

What does strike me it is getting hard now to be sure what is and isent 100%, imagine what it will be like picking one of these up in say 20 years time !! the better fakes could become the "originals" with the poor fakes becoming the fakes
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:56 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Great eye Alex, yes the dial is also wrong:

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Old 03-04-2012, 08:15 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Just a little update...


I contacted the seller I purchased the watch from who is a fellow collector who was also completely unaware of this watches actual provenance. In what has cheered me up the most over all of this, he actually offered me a full refund which is an incredibly generous gesture, but one of course that I can not accept (Edit: seller insists on making the refund, I don't think that's fair, so we eventually agreed to split it in half) . The only person who owes me anything from this is the last known seller with knowledge of their own deceit, otherwise we are just moving the victim up and down the chain of sales and that hardly seems fair. He will be contacting the person he purchased it from, but I sincerely doubt they will be as generous, regardless of any knowledge of the watches true provenance.


On a last note, there is no need for any gestures around this, I am not the only person who has been taken by this I am certain and unfortunately from here on out there will be a small but nonetheless continuous stream of victims. I would prefer any energy be directed on ensuring that the right information is out there, that sellers are contacted so they can understand what it is they are selling (regardless of their actual knowledge), to try and minimize the number of people that will ultimately be affected. To this end, if anybody needs my watch for a while that would do a complete strip down and comparison post I would be happy to send it along for that purpose.


To the point above, and specifically to w4watch, if you want to do anything for anybody regarding this whole situation, I would prefer please that you just look inward at what it is you do for a business, and stop convincing yourself that it is victimless.


AJ


P.S. Sorry for the interlude, and lets keep this thread on topic regarding details and observations of this fake....
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:41 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

I really feel for you at the moment AJ, only few hours after you make the wonderfuly kind gesture to me about parts for my watch this happens to you, it's an effin disgrace and shows there are going to more, I always come here for the best advice on these old chrono's, there are a few members on here who amaze me with their knowledge on these like yourself and spencer, cobra, ETC.ETC., this level of sophisticated fakery is a real worry to us less clued up collectors, I mean if they can knock up one of these that's able to fool you guys who's to say they wont start on other vintage seiko where there are already fake dials, hands, inserts, The 6105 divers now look very vulnerable to this sort of thing.
I hope Wolves stuff fulham this afternoon to bring you a little cheer AJ.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

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this level of sophisticated fakery is a real worry to us less clued up collectors, I mean if they can knock up one of these that's able to fool you guys who's to say they wont start on other vintage seiko where there are already fake dials, hands, inserts, The 6105 divers now look very vulnerable to this sort of thing.
Not if SCWF can help it.

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Old 03-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

As i said it is scary and every time i saw AJs i was really impressed and the desire for one at the right price has always been in the back of my mind.


What amazes me the forgers go to all the trouble they do and get them so nearly right but always seem to fall down on some small detail (thank fully) but with modern technology and as they gain experience we will all (imo) be struggling to pick out the genuine from the forgeries.


Even now how many posts come up and we are divided as to yes or no to being original ?


Thank goodness for the likes of the SCWF and the shared knowledge
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Ok ,most of the fakes end up on ebay, one way or another, If you have the technology to create such a convincing fake, why would you create a multitude of watches with the same serial # ? I mean , we all do our side by side comparisons of models that we are looking to buy... every seller has a shot of the caseback... you think a scam like that would really be shortlived, yet it manages to get the best of even the most seasoned seikoholics...very scary. (the 6138 is an extremely difficult watch to fake, that's also scary.) It's one thing to cobble up a few watches with aftermarket parts...but fakes that are almost mass produced,.... crap!!!!
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:14 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Bracelets are also fake as well, looking at mine in more detail, and the one on the retro-watches.co.uk site they are different to the originals in that the center link is solid, there should be a split through the center of the middle link when viewed from the back.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Well said, AJ, bravo. Good result, better than expected.



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Old 03-04-2012, 05:13 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Here is another one being sold, but not claimed to be NOS, only "restored":
http://www.vintagewatchland.com/Vint...0ff0f7a-p.html
It is not EBAY, but the photos seem familiar...

Scoobadoo

P.S: Nice price as well
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobadoo
Here is another one being sold, but not claimed to be NOS, only "restored":
http://www.vintagewatchland.com/Vint...0ff0f7a-p.html
It is not EBAY, but the photos seem familiar...

Scoobadoo

P.S: Nice price as well

Amazing that the same fingers seem to be found all around the world!
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:43 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

So maybe we don't have the guy's face, but we've got his fingerprints... )
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:32 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

I had to ask the seller of item 251006284688 about originality to see what he would say, maybe he is unaware that it is not what it seems or very confident nobody will notice!

Dear arisahak2008,

Hi I am interested in your watch, can you confirm that the watch has no aftermarket parts fitted and that it is completely original.

- fowey007


Dear fowey007,

Yes watch it 100% original or money back The SS Seiko bracelet is new Thank you for your kind interest Best regards rahim
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:03 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Not sure if it's just a coincidence, but there aren't any for sale on the bay at the moment...at least none of the fakes from the usual suspects....


...are they lurking?



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Old 03-06-2012, 02:17 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

I believe someone here (Spencer?) submitted a report to eBay to that effect..
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heads Up.. Fake 6138-7000 Galore

Quote:
Originally Posted by thanapa
I believe someone here (Spencer?) submitted a report to eBay to that effect..

yes, but the more people who report an item the better.


Like, say, if we were going to really make sure that fakes got noticed on eBay, like the ones that Firefly / Time_Classics / W4Watch sells for example, we should all find the fakes, and report them. The more reports, the more eBay takes notice.



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