6309 versus 6319 - differences? - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 6309 versus 6319 - differences?

Due to a mix-up on my part I just realized that I installed a 6319 movement into a 6309 case. It was a direct swap. So this begs the question - what are the differences between the two movements?



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Old 09-01-2011, 04:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default 6309 versus 6319 - differences?

Just a few more jewels
And slightly better accuracy

Cheers
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309 versus 6319 - differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red9k
Just a few more jewels
And slightly better accuracy

Cheers
Magnus

Hm!


So, I've accidentally upgraded my new 6309-7290? ;D


Since installing it last night it's at -7 seconds, and is running smooth and strong. I'm kind of amazed that it's a straight swap, like a direct drop-in. I had to move the day & date wheels over since the donor watch had the crown at 3:00, but they dropped in without an issue.



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Old 09-01-2011, 09:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6309 versus 6319 - differences?

The same "drop and swap" applies with the 23j 6349 movement as well. Built a 6309-704x mod with one a month ago. To date it is the most accurate 63xx series watch that I own staying within a very tight +\- 5 seconds per day.
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The same "drop and swap" applies with the 23j 6349 movement as well. Built a 6309-704x mod with one a month ago. To date it is the most accurate 63xx series watch that I own staying within a very tight +\- 5 seconds per day.
Hi,
Sorry to pick this up years later....
But, is this 6349 that rare?
Looking through eBay, almost all watches with this movement are from India. And that seems a little shady...
Should I buy one of these watches as a donor for one 6309 diver?
Also, I see some see through case backs on eBay, that fit the SKX007, and says it might fit the 6309-7040 too.
Are their case backs interchangeable?
I'd appreciate if someone has these answers.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have purchased 2 6349's from India. I would not purchase another. I did this about 3 years ago. Thinking along the same lines as you. I know much more about seikos now and picked the 6349 that would run and stop for my first rebuild. Turns out, all that is 6349 in this watch is the bridge that has the model stamped on it. All the up jeweled parts are gone. A few of the parts inside have different part numbers from their 63xx brothers. From what I have learned, it is virtually impossible to tell the difference unless you work on them daily. And, you can't interchange the parts.

You can try it, I won't be competing with you bidding. On ebay, I did find a very nice 6319 dress watch that was virtually unused, from a USA seller. In the two weeks I wore it, it kept nearly perfect time. Guess where this movement is going.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Any of the eBay auctions I've seen for the 6349s from India, when they have pictures of the movement they all look grubby. Genuine or no I wouldn't want to take the chance without the understanding it will need service right away.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have purchased 2 6349's from India. I would not purchase another. I did this about 3 years ago. Thinking along the same lines as you. I know much more about seikos now and picked the 6349 that would run and stop for my first rebuild. Turns out, all that is 6349 in this watch is the bridge that has the model stamped on it. All the up jeweled parts are gone. A few of the parts inside have different part numbers from their 63xx brothers. From what I have learned, it is virtually impossible to tell the difference unless you work on them daily. And, you can't interchange the parts.

You can try it, I won't be competing with you bidding. On ebay, I did find a very nice 6319 dress watch that was virtually unused, from a USA seller. In the two weeks I wore it, it kept nearly perfect time. Guess where this movement is going.
Yep... I gave up on that idea.
I was told these 6349 movements from India are put together with whatever parts they can lay their hands on.
Better look for a 6306. A nice one was on eBay for $15 for 3 or 4 days, and jumped to $65 in a few seconds.
I was the second highest bidder.
Oh, well... I'll keep on trying.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Any of the eBay auctions I've seen for the 6349s from India, when they have pictures of the movement they all look grubby. Genuine or no I wouldn't want to take the chance without the understanding it will need service right away.
It looked shady from the number of watches, and all from India.
Now I know these watches are frankensteins.
I'll just wait for a nice 6306.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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6349 are mainly from India.
Had purchased 2 before, although they look acceptable, but some how the accuracy isnt as good.

Better off rebuilding or getting a serviced 6309 or 6319.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The 6349 I stripped down was actually close to spotlessly clean inside. Some effort was expended on putting it together. Unfortunately, it is a mis match of parts.

I did score a beat up 6306 with an ugly (to me) case that works great. I got a much nicer 6306 a few weeks later that looks a lot better but it starts and stops. It is in storage until my rebuilding skills improve.

For reference, it has taken me 3 years to collect these spares. When I started, there were not many people bidding on these. Things are a little different now. Lots of bidders and the prices are going sky high.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The 6349 I stripped down was actually close to spotlessly clean inside. Some effort was expended on putting it together. Unfortunately, it is a mis match of parts.

I did score a beat up 6306 with an ugly (to me) case that works great. I got a much nicer 6306 a few weeks later that looks a lot better but it starts and stops. It is in storage until my rebuilding skills improve.

For reference, it has taken me 3 years to collect these spares. When I started, there were not many people bidding on these. Things are a little different now. Lots of bidders and the prices are going sky high.

Yep... Lots of bidders!!
There was a nice 6306 movement inside an ugly golden Actus.
It was going for $15 for 4 days. I thought it wasn't showing up on the eBay search.
Then, last Sunday, 9pm here, I had set my iPhone alarm for 10 minutes before the end of the auction. And was still at $15.50.
In seconds it went to $61.00.
My bid was the second highest, at $60.
Now I just need to keep my eyes open for another one.
Unless someone here is willing to sell a 6306 movement....
I'm also concentrating my efforts into a 6309 golden turtle.
Never seen one, but I'm sure it would look great!
There's a place where I do 24k gold plating, and it would look nice with a croc strap.
Let's see how it goes... Still a while until I begin all that.
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Lately, my tastes have been focused on more rare and collectable Seikos. I'm up against real pro ebayers. Bids on one in particular went from $15 to $215 in the last 5 seconds.

I got a nice running 6306 last month for about $115. Followed by a non runner for about $70. On that one, the seller sent me the wrong watch. He corrected the mistake at his expense and wouldn't take any money for the wrong watch he sent. I wanted to pay for the wrong watch because I actually like it and it is 50 years old.

Bid on everything, there is a chance every other collector will be busy one day and you will get your chance. The 6319 I mentioned had 2 bidders and I got it for less than $20.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Lately, my tastes have been focused on more rare and collectable Seikos. I'm up against real pro ebayers. Bids on one in particular went from $15 to $215 in the last 5 seconds.

I got a nice running 6306 last month for about $115. Followed by a non runner for about $70. On that one, the seller sent me the wrong watch. He corrected the mistake at his expense and wouldn't take any money for the wrong watch he sent. I wanted to pay for the wrong watch because I actually like it and it is 50 years old.

Bid on everything, there is a chance every other collector will be busy one day and you will get your chance. The 6319 I mentioned had 2 bidders and I got it for less than $20.
The very old ones don't really do anything for me. Seiko or any other brand...
My 6309-7040 is a Sept/1979 Suwa. Got it in 2011 from one of those Philippines sellers. I opened to see if the movement was legit, and everything seems fine. Just needed a little cleaning inside and bezel gasket.
I also got a SKX007 at the same time, but it wasn't seeing any use, so, I sold it to a friend who needed a beater.
I also got the "Monster" around the same time. But it was too small and also got sold.
The one I'm looking into using as a candidate for the golden turtle is a newer, cheaper non-Suwa.
I would like to use a 6306 movement on my turtle but it's really not that important. The golden turtle now is my number one focus.
Still deciding on the parts. I'll try to leave it as standard as possible.
Maybe a bracelet or leather strap. I'll see that when it's finished.....
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My trip down vintage lane started with finding a birth year and month watch. Got one that works great. Replaced the crystal and gaskets in the morning. Before lunch was over, put a big scratch in the new crystal. Two weeks ago, I got some weld splatter on a fake Tudor. Wore the watch in salt water and the weld blob is all rusty now. I made that watch because I wanted to see if I liked the style. I do like it but a $3000 watch would have gotten the same rough treatment. I'll just save my money and stick with watches that can take a licking and not cost me a fortune.

I purchased my 6309 diver with my first real paycheck in 1981. I still have it and it needs a little refresh so it's getting a 6306 movement.

Not sure about the gold plating thing. Not my thing. Then again, some people may cringe at messing with an original owner 6309.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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My trip down vintage lane started with finding a birth year and month watch.

I purchased my 6309 diver with my first real paycheck in 1981. I still have it and it needs a little refresh so it's getting a 6306 movement.

Not sure about the gold plating thing. Not my thing. Then again, some people may cringe at messing with an original owner 6309.
I would love to find a watch from May 1969 that I liked. So far, Sept 79 is as close as I got to my birthday.
Already decided on the parts for the golden turtle. It will be the exact original version, but gold plated.
I'm not doing it for people's approval, but as a different thing that I've never seen anywhere else.
I've seen PVD mods, and countless different dials, bezels and hands on countless versions. But never one gold plated. And they would look great side by side.
The candidate was already chosen, and it's coming my way.
I also found a nice 6306 movement and should be here in a couple of weeks, from Thailand. I'll have it checked the moment it arrives.
The donor watch was a Seiko Actus SilverWave.
Do you know if it's a simple swap? Will the hands, crown and stem from the 6309 fit the 6306 movement?
I only like watches. I don't work on them.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I purchased my 6309 diver with my first real paycheck in 1981. I still have it and it needs a little refresh so it's getting a 6306 movement.

Not sure about the gold plating thing. Not my thing. Then again, some people may cringe at messing with an original owner 6309.
Well, a month and a half later, and I finally got today my 6306 movement!!
Instead of paying a lot for whole watches and fighting with other users, I just sent messages to many of the east Asia sellers that rebuild watches, and one answered, saying he had an original Seiko Actus SilverWave movement, but that it needed service... And it was US$35.00, including shipping.




What else could I want? I don't need a watch case that I'll just throw away.... And the movement seems to be in very good shape for being 40 years old.
I took these pictures today, right after I got it on the mail.

Also, another box, from another seller, with a blue dial and chapter ring and a set of hands, but for a 7S26 SKX. At least he got the bezel rings and the caseback gaskets right, but the bezel gasket is incorrect too.
So, I'm waiting for a solution on that.

So, until last week, I had my Seiko H-558-5009 from Mar/1984, bought new in Jan/1987, and my Seiko 6309-7040 from Sep/1979, bought on eBay sometime in 2011.


That was it until then, for my Seiko divers.
I also had the SKX007 and the Monster, both from eBay, but they were sold right away, for being too small.

So, last week I got a box from the US, with a lot of items bought on eBay, that a friend shoves in one bigger box and that saves me a lot on shipping and taxes!
And, among the 27 items there, another 6309-7040, with the Scubapro dial, perfect for the 6306 movement that was still on the way!
I got it for only $199 on eBay, and it came with a Strapcode Super Oyster and a Z-22 flat vent.


The brand new Z-22 is perfect for the H-558, even though I prefer it with a black steel bracelet (these two pictures were from the eBay listing).

There were no bids on this watch. Probably because the seller didn't put a picture of the caseback, the movement, and didn't mention the serial number or the date it was made, which can mean, as we all know, Suwa or non-Suwa. It was a shot in the dark, and, as soon as my friend got it, I asked him for a few pictures of the serial number.

So, $199 for a Suwa 6309 is not bad, considering that bracelet costs $60 and the Z-22 costs $20.
So, the family grew a little that day.


And then, one more watch just fell on my lap. A pretty beat up Seiko H-558-5000 (JDM) from Apr/1982, that a friend had stuck inside some drawer for many years. And I couldn't pass the opportunity to have another one, and to restore it. After all, that's the fun part!

My old H-558 had an overhaul back in 2010, with new shroud, bezel ring and strap. All I need now is the crystal, because it got chipped inside a cave, while spearfishing. I did wear that watch in every dive for over 20 years! And now it has a brother that needs a little TLC.


So, that's it for now. The family of vintage Seiko Divers now has four members.
The Scubapro will get the 6306 movement, the other one will get gold plated, since the case is pretty scratched, and the H-558 will get restored. All at the same time.
Lots of fun on the way...

And BTW, try sending messages to the sellers. They might have some movements waiting to get serviced/restored.
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Old 10-07-2016, 02:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hi Mark. The 6309 hands will fit a 6306 movement.

However, and not to piss on your parade here, but are you aware that the scubapro dial you have there is not original, nor are the bezel or hands? The bezel insert on your original there doesn't look genuine either from your picture. If you purchased that in 81/2011? have you since changed the insert with an aftermarket part?

Suwa and non Suwa is not quite the clear distinction between quality and worth I think many believe. For instance there are only very minor differences. Strangely as well, Spencer Klein has mentioned many a time just how solid and consistent the figures given by non Suwa 6309a movements are when compared to Suwa versions. I think the bevel on the date window is slightly different, they weren't produced as long (like the 6306-7001, which would have had the actual Scubapro dial)

For me, Suwa or non Suwa isn't a thing, but the most important aspect is not paying over the odds for what should be an original dial, hands and bezel, to find the cost of those parts is tiny fraction of what was spent on the watch for essentially a case and movement because they are aftermarket cheap reproductions.

If you knew all this then apologies, and enjoy the watch.

Last edited by GuyJ; 10-07-2016 at 02:37 PM. Reason: 6306-7001,
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:08 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi Mark. The 6309 hands will fit a 6306 movement.

However, and not to piss on your parade here, but are you aware that the scubapro dial you have there is not original, nor are the bezel or hands? The bezel insert on your original there doesn't look genuine either from your picture. If you purchased that in 81/2011? have you since changed the insert with an aftermarket part?

Suwa and non Suwa is not quite the clear distinction between quality and worth I think many believe. For instance there are only very minor differences. Strangely as well, Spencer Klein has mentioned many a time just how solid and consistent the figures given by non Suwa 6309a movements are when compared to Suwa versions. I think the bevel on the date window is slightly different, they weren't produced as long (like the 6306-7001, which would have had the actual Scubapro dial)

For me, Suwa or non Suwa isn't a thing, but the most important aspect is not paying over the odds for what should be an original dial, hands and bezel, to find the cost of those parts is tiny fraction of what was spent on the watch for essentially a case and movement because they are aftermarket cheap reproductions.

If you knew all this then apologies, and enjoy the watch.
Hi, there!
Yes, I knew it all, and I really don't mind. I'm really not worried if the hands are original, or the dial is or isn't made by Seiko, as long as they look good.
I'd rather have these two watches, looking somewhat new or well preserved, than an all original that's looking all weird, like circles of mold on the dial.
Some people like that, and I do respect everyone's taste. Just isn't mine.

I knew both watches were restored with aftermarket parts somewhere in Asia, and that really doesn't bother me.
A few weeks ago, I saw a guy selling a brand new 6309-7049, with box, papers and tags. I forgot the price, but it was way over $1000. And I won't pay that for the same thing.
The dial, hands and bezel insert don't interfere on the functioning. So... That doesn't bother me...
The aftermarket parts might be cheap to buy, but handling them, you can clearly see that it isn't low quality!
I have many different dials here, most original Seikos, and the aftermarket diver dials are brass and very well made. And so are the hands. I have a few here too.

Now, paying $1500 for the original 6306, when I can have the same thing for $400, just isn't logical.
Once the 6306 movement is running inside, the only visual difference will be the numbers on the caseback.
And, of course, that tiny "6306 -700L T" on the dial.
Since my friends have no knowledge about these watches... Actually, I don't have any friends who share the same love for watches. Some have very high end pieces, but know nothing about them. They just have money.

I don't buy my watches thinking of ever selling them. I know what I have, and what each one is worth, in the US and here in Brazil. I could sell it for twice or three times the US price here. And I do make some money importing things. But that's another story.

I bought the first 6309 in 2011, because I wanted this watch. I read a bit about it first, looked for a pre-1982, and kept an eye on the eBay auctions. Actually, I bought the SKX007 from the same seller first Then, before it was shipped, I decided on the 6309, and I got them both in the same package.
The SKX was a bit too small, and I wasn't wearing it much. But it did work much better than the 6309.
A very good friend wanted an automatic Seiko, so I sold the SKX for pretty much what I paid for it.

Had I seen the story behind the 6306 Scubapro before, I would have waited to buy one with that dial. I do dive and I know what Scubapro is, unlike most desk divers. I've actually owned Scubapro equipment, and I might still have some stuff somewhere.
My Seiko H-558 has been my number one watch for diving, since 1987, either scuba or spearfishing.

I knew the first 6309 I bought had aftermarket hands, dial, crystal and bezel insert. They say that in every listing. But it looked great, and I was pleasantly surprised how new it looked when I got it.
It now has taken a beating, and that's why I decided to transform it into a "golden turtle".

I wasn't even gonna buy the Scubapro 6309 right now. But for $200, with a Strapcode bracelet and the Z-22 flat vent, I think it was pretty cheap! I found out today that it's missing the movement spring. I'll get a new one soon.
And I did want the Suwa movement. Both dials have the Suwa symbol, so.... It's just fair.
I saw Spencer Klein mentioning the non-Suwas being more accurate, but I still don't want one...

Both my 6309s are a bit cranky. If I want/need accuracy, I have many other watches I can wear. And the iPhone, of course...
I have many chronographs that would give me that too. But these two 6309s are pretty much the only watches I'm wearing right now. For some reason, I just fell in love with them.

Now, the 6306 movement isn't working properly. I ventured into changing the movements, to see if it would be "plug and play", and it was a perfect fit, even with the dial it has on it.
The crown works perfectly, day/date too. It just won't run. And that's way above my level of knowledge.
Next week I'll drop it off to be fixed.

I wonder if it will need parts, it the guy has them here, if I'll be able to find them, or if 6309 parts will fit.
But I'm in no hurry right now.
As it gets fixed, the older beat up 6309 will be taken apart and gold plated. I got some of the parts in. The blue dial I got was for a 7S26-0020 SKX, so, I gotta wait for the right one.
The black/gold bezel insert is here. The bracelet that will be gold plated is here. I don't want just a gold tone bracelet.

I know some people might frown on that. But I've seen black, brown, green, grey cerakoted 6309s, countless mods, dials, bezels. But never one that's gold plated, so... Let's see how it turns out.
Since I have two that look pretty much the same, let's change one, right?
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