6309-7040/7049 Trivia - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb 6309-7040/7049 Trivia

Hey everyone,
after participating in yet another 6309 diver authenticity evaluation, I finally got around to collect some of the valuable information that is given time and again here.
These are small morsels of wisdom concerning the 6309-7040 respective 6309-7049 divers that one does not necessarily find in the "How to buy a 6309 diver" article.

I thank all of the members here that actively participate on these threads and help the novice buyer to spend his/her money on an authentic piece and avoid watches that have these indications of after market parts. I have added text only if needed to clarify the context, marked by [square brackets].

Feel free to add other information that helps to identify "correct" examples and that is not already covered (or not easily grasped) in the "How to buy" article by Isthmus... Everyone looking to buy a 6309 diver should have read these first.

Here is a link to the guide:
https://www.thewatchsite.com/12-refer...ing-guide.html
And - sadly, as there are all the pictures missing in "our" guide, another with the pictures still present:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f281/ho...de-140799.html



Without further ado, here is some of the swarm intelligence concerning our favorite (as per recent poll) diver:

Variants:
The 'hong kong' version, from the later years of the production run. final assembly done outside japan - doesn't say 'japan' on the caseback. -feca67
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1342554

[Hong Kong version] not as common as the earlier Suwa dials. The day/date window is slightly less bevelled on this version. -Jim W
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1342634

The bezel around the day/date window is often less or almost non exsistant on the HongKong variation. -TheTigerUK
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1342658

[The Hong Kong produced watch] has the Seiko Time Corp rotor that the 7049 should have. All too often you see 7049's with the Seiko rotor and 7040's with the Time Corp rotor indicating that the movement is not original to the case. -Dynam0humm
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1342898

if you have the Suwa symbol on the dial, it should say 'Japan A' on the case back. -eccles
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1155362

For it's year [1983], the case is correctly marked 'A' without the 'Japan' followed by the Suwa logo. - Jim W
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1233753

I've had three [6309-704x]. Two from '83, which I still have, and one from '84. None of them have the Suwa marking on the on the dial. -OldHippie1968
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1234313

I am convinced the Suwa dial on 1983/4 6309-704x is OK, I have two of them, one in particular I am quite sure has never been opened. Now aside from mine and the one in this thread, I have looked around the web and found several of them. There are too many for it to be a coincidence. -Jim W
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1235785

Dial/Hands:
First thing I always think of is to be wary of an old watch that has perfect condition hands, dial and especially bezel insert, also the day/date window should have a bevel to it and AM's are normally flat. -skg7548
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1155386

[Dark] lume [was] subject to moisture rot and the hands are corroded as well. I would at least get some pictures of the movement before buying. -Mr.Jones
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1340842

[on the topic of hands] ...you will notice that the 6309 ones have more of a satin finish and have more finely cut edges. They also have different lume. 7002 hands are chromed and not as finely cut. They are interchangeable. -Isthmus
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...html#post89541

The dial [in question] is a fake, the 6 O'clock hour marker certainly isn't right, it shouldn't protrude down into the text line below. [JAPAN 6309 - 704L T dial] -Jim W
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1143674

The "5" is correct [having a beveled edge where the straight part meets the round part.], the m has the little tail [on the upper left], the lume looks very clean. The Seik-"O" is rather squashed, but looking at the "original" photos here, this is the correct style [JAPAN 6309 - 704L T dial]. -Mr.Jones
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1277369

Same hands for the two watches [6306 and 6309] -Itau
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1234553

Leave an aftermarket dial in direct sunlight for a few days and it turns gray [and looks aged with lume degradation]. -scubarob99
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1232577

The Seiko font [on an aftermarket dial] looks wrong and I only remember seeing the 735MR on the 6309-7290 dials. -doomguy10011
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1232553

The best way to tell what is AM is the lume test - I'd charge it up under a light and turn off the light and see how bright the dial, hands, and rotating ring insert glow. -dasher
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1166842

The larger cut outs around the crown area are actually on the very early 6306 and 6309 cases from approximately 1976 to around 1977/8. -j111dja
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...=1#post1963463

Bezel:
[The bezel has] a Lens in the PIP, No aftermarket has that, Or at least that I am aware of... -DAHASCO
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1200746

Addenum: [Yobokies bezels, link] are the closest to original out there but they do differ in that they are flat and don't slant towards the crystal, but there are ways of making them slant. -Dynam0humm
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1344738

Bezel insert (small lume pip) and the crystal (looks domed and no frosted edge) are [signs of] probably after market [bezels]. -tritto
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1253353

You can tell with bezel insert... [a fake one] does fit the bezel tightly and leaves gaps between it and the bezel. -jringo8769
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1288057

What the bezel insert should look like:
Big lume pip and the triangle is "wrapping" over the inner rim of the bezel. -Mr.Jones
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1288177

[Bezel size of a] Seiko Diver 6309-704x - External Diameter: 38.00 mm, Internal Diameter: 31.50 mm -axb
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...html#post84962

Crown:
Well, 4 [turns] is ideal, so you start from there. I am usually not too concerned about how many turns. But it does demonstrate that the threaded tube is wearing down. -UncleSeiko
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1342410

Often the crown screw down issue is wear to the crown and not the case tube, new crown sorts that out. -TheTigerUK
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1342650

Up to 1980ish they came with what is referred to as the fat spline crown. Somewhere between 79 and 81 the thin spline crown became standard and as far as I know all of the a/m crowns are thin splines, so if you see a pre 79 watch with a thin spline crown it's probably a/m or a later service replacement. -Dynam0humm
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1344738
Strap:
From the factory i think they [6309-704x] all came with rubber. -jringo8769
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1190778

Box:
The original box for a 6309-7049. It should have a dark blue interior. The tan colored interior usually denoted a Quartz watch. -dcso211
https://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...ml#post1232105

Last edited by Mr.Jones; 05-22-2015 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Very useful's information !

Thanks for your effort Mr.Jones !
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Interesting... I honestly wish there were some Extra high res photos showing orginal vs AM.

All my Phones, laptops, TVs all have 4k. Low Res doesn't cut it anymore. PERIOD.
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow, pretty comprehensive.
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Old 05-21-2015, 09:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Great post sir

Only a couple of things I'd add or edit in the post. One poster stated that none of the a/m inserts have a lens on the pip. Not true. Check out Yobokies inserts - link. His are the closest to original out there but they do differ in that they are flat and don't slant towards the crystal, but there are ways of making them slant .

One other bit of info left out regards the crowns. Up to 1980ish they came with what is referred to as the fat spline crown. Somewhere between 79 and 81 the thin spline crown became standard and as far as I know all of the a/m crowns are thin splines, so if you see a pre 79 watch with a thin spline crown it's probably a/m or a later service replacement.

Other than that some great info which is not covered in the usual buying guides

Last edited by Dynam0humm; 05-21-2015 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 05-22-2015, 03:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks, I will add it to the list!
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Old 05-22-2015, 04:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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They always get the fonts wrong on fake dials... 6306-7001 and 6309-704x dials are very similar. Here's a fake Scubapro dial..... The slight blue tinge is missing and the font is slightly wrong on the Scubapro 450 text, most noticeable on the A and the 4. The 5 is wrong and the E's are wrong in Water 150 Resist script. The font is also wrong on the small text at the bottom of the dial, Note the A's in Japan should have a flat top and the slight arc of the downstroke on the 7 and similarly on the 4 (6309-704x dials).

Here's a fake (note: this has the correct bevelled day/date window, indicating it began life as an original 6306/6309 dial):



Here's the real one:



I often think we should be careful how closely we analyse the fakes on this site as it might show the fakers where they are going wrong. But there are so many fake dials on ebay right now and we need to know how to be sure to avoid them.

Last edited by Jim W; 07-13-2017 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 05-22-2015, 05:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well, a good reproduction could bring back a lot of fake-dialled watches to a close-to-original look. But if it has "Seiko" on it, it's still a fake.

And thank you for the closeup shots - I will try and take macro images of my '78 Japan version's dial for reference. Maybe we can get high-res shots of the other dials, too!

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Old 05-22-2015, 07:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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An iPhone can take good hi-res shots... The real Scubapro photo above was taken by my iPhone. if you zoom the image in a little, then move in for the pic' the results can be very good.
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, my Nexus 4 is shite when it comes to picture taking - as you might have noticed in the WRUW threads
But I have a camera and macro lens, so it's only a question of freeing enough time for some nice high-res shots...
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Old 05-22-2015, 09:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
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A lot of useful information Jonas.

Here are a few part numbers for the regular parts we change.

Due to the problems we are all experiencing with PB all the pictures i posted have gone so for now check out this link please.

http://www.thetigeruk.com/6309-7040--7049.html
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Old 05-22-2015, 09:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks, Tiger! This is really great stuff.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The 6309s with the 704MT dials were manufactured in Singapore, I believe. I'm not sure, but I think they might have started production a little earlier than the Hong Kong dialed ones, in late 1980 I think.
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:23 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Here is my 1978 Version in high-res (click on the image)



Never noticed it before, but my hour hand has rough edges, whereas the minute hand is smooth... Maybe a replacement? But then the lume looks completely identical...
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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great info
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Excellent thread.... thank you
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Old 07-22-2015, 05:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The excellent hi-res image shows the dial code perfectly. Note the flat top on the A's in JAPAN and the slight arc on the downstroke of the 7 and also on the 4. Also note the low 'crossbar' on the A and the 4. I have never seen this font accurately copied by the fakers

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Old 07-24-2015, 02:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Awsome.... but just so I get it right... no bevel at all -> definitivly aftermarket?
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
Awsome.... but just so I get it right... no bevel at all -> definitivly aftermarket?
Not necessarily... Here's a 6309-729A. This is the 2nd generation 6309 diver with the symetrical case. The beveled window completely disappeared on this version.




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Old 07-26-2015, 07:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hi Jim would you say this is aftermarket then or original? I'm thinking aftermarket.


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Old 07-27-2015, 04:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Difficult to say Nick... I am pretty sure it is aftermarket, but the resolution isn't good enough and the hour hand is covering some of the text.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:09 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim W View Post
Difficult to say Nick... I am pretty sure it is aftermarket, but the resolution isn't good enough and the hour hand is covering some of the text.

Hi mate I took some better photos for you with my macro lens. For all the hype of iPhone 6 cameras sometimes they really aren't that flash.. Also, would you say the hands look original? I know the hour hand is back to front for some reason.. i received the watch as is, as a parts watch. Thankfully, the movement seems to work fine though.



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Old 07-27-2015, 06:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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In comparison to my original 7548 dial I notice the potentially aftermarket 6309 has some distinct differences. The water resist seems quite a blotchy heavy text whereas the 7548 is nice and flat with a satin sheen, as opposed to the gloss of the 6309.

I'm now wondering if the hands are original though. You can see original 6309 hands on my 6309-7040. I have a gut feeling they are aftermarket, the 6309-7290 hands are a lot thinner. Unless they changed also over from the earlyer 6309..




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Old 07-27-2015, 06:44 AM   #24 (permalink)
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It doesn't look good at all... I think the dial and hands are all wrong.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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In what way would you say they are all wrong?

I don't mind if they aren't correct as it's purely a parts watch, essentially the movement is the only thing i'd want to use.. just interested in learning about them as much as i enjoy learning about the other Seikos i've got.
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