Please read this. Policy Change - Help me help you... - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Please read this. Policy Change - Help me help you...

Guys, I REALLY need your help here. PLEASE, full eight digit movement-casing numbers with all parts inquiries. PLEASE.


One of my favorite of Dr. Perry Cox's many, many rants on "Scrubs".

As it applies here, guys, when you ask about parts, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, give me the [color=red]entire eight digit movement-casing number from the back of your Seiko. There are far too many variables within most Seiko calibres for me to guess which part for which individual model.

The numbers imprinted on the dial are, in most instances, the part number of the dial and not the model number of the watch.

And most importantly, the retail sales number i.e. SBDA001, are absolutely meaningless when chasing down parts. Seiko's parts manuals and microfiche now and always have used [color=red]only[color=black] the movement-casing numbers to reference parts numbers.

This is all said as a gentle reminder as I have spent the entire afternoon catching-up on e-mails and parts queries, trying to get back to doing what I do. Any time I can save today or any other day is a blessing to be sure.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Help me help you. Help me help you...

Bumping this up.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swedefreak

The numbers imprinted on the dial are, in most instances, the part number of the dial and not the model number of the watch.
I am surprised by this. That is totally different from what I have read and experienced:

The xxxx-xxxx number on the dial is repeated on the case back.
It identifies the caliber-case type combination.
It is identical on identical type watches even if one has a black- and the other a white- or silver dial.
The dial type ís identified by the catalouged model number of the watch for that period. Unfortunately the model number of the wath as catalogued for a white- or black dialed caliber-case is usually nowhere to be found on the watch.

The case type number is NOT universal and only identifies the type of case in relation to the caliber.

The xxxx caliber code however ís universal and not only identifies the caliber, on the older calibers it also can contain info on the grade (third digit) and complication (fourth digit) such as date/no date. With many present day caliber numbers the first digit is a relative grade indication and the second for the type of technology.

If you have the catalogued model number you will get the caliber-case , case finish and the type of dial.
To get access to a catalogue for the caliber-case of the corrrect period and this should list the various dials with their respective part numbers.

So, indeed SBDA00x will not reveal you the part number of anything.
SBDA00x wíll tell you caliber and case, case finish ánd dial type combination.
With the caliber-case code you need the parts catalogue for the period to find the part numbers for the case in that finish as the type of dial.
You will thus need áll. SBDA003 ánd 6R15-8000 ánd ´98. Per example, to find the partnumber of the marbled green dial that was fitted to the gold filled case of this watch in ´98 (fictituously)



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Old 02-02-2011, 12:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomoCaballus

The xxxx-xxxx number on the dial is repeated on the case back.
It identifies the caliber-case type combination.
The dial number in many cases is NOT the same as the XXXX-XXXX on the case back (the model #) the first 4 digits are but not the last four.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomoCaballus
The xxxx-xxxx number on the dial is repeated on the case back.
It identifies the caliber-case type combination.
That's incorrect.

The number on the caseback is the Movement case number. It identifies which movement is intended for that case, but does not identify the specific model variant. a search under a casing guide with this number will identify all the part numbers for all the models that belong to this movement and case combination.

The dialcode number you are referring to is the movement-dial number. while the movement number displayed will be the same as on the caseback, the dial number should not be (if it is, its a coincidence). This number identifies the specific dial that you are looking at and the movement it was originally intended for. The movement-dial number does not always appear in all dial codes.

By combining the two sets of numbers a repairer can technically determine exactly which specific model (or model variant) is being worked on and which specific part number combination should apply.

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Old 02-02-2011, 01:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

"The xxxx-xxxx number on the dial is repeated on the case back."

No. In most vintage Seikos the dial number might be repeated on the case back but is usually different. Witness the half-dozen or so different dial numbers on 6138-6000/6002/6005s all the same case, same movement, DIFFERENT DIALS.

"The case type number is NOT universal and only identifies the type of case in relation to the caliber."

And this is EXACTLY why it is vital to have the full eight digit movement-casing number. This morning someone asked for a 6217 stem. There are four 6217-based models. They call for two DIFFERENT stems. And by the way, THREE different crystals.

"So, indeed SBDA00x will not reveal you the part number of anything."

Agreed, absolutely useless and why I keep pleading for the movement-casing numbers.

"SBDA00x wíll tell you caliber and case, case finish ánd dial type combination."

Still useless to find parts.

"With the caliber-case code you need the parts catalogue for the period to find the part numbers for the case in that finish as the type of dial."

AT LAST! My point entirly.

My reference library includes all of Seiko's Casing Parts Manuals from 1969 through 1981 and most Seiko Parts microfiche from the mid-198os through the mid 1990s. In addition, there are several editions of the Technical Manuals, Parts Manuals and Parts Interchange Manuals. NONE OF THESE USE ANY NUMBER OTHER THAN THE MOVEMENT-CASING NUMBER TO IDENTIFY PARTS.

"You will thus need áll. SBDA003 ánd 6R15-8000 ánd ´98. Per example, to find the partnumber of the marbled green dial that was fitted to the gold filled case of this watch in ´98 (fictituously)"

Only if one tries to go to COSERV (Seiko USA) or any other Seiko Factory Service Center.

I do not and will not, under any circumstance, go directly to COSERV. For the most part they offer bumbling, at best, service and surly parts department personnel. And I sure as hell am NOT going to pay retail for Seiko parts.

What parts I do not have in stock are sourced from my network of material houses, some of whom I have been dealing with since 1974.

In closing, I am here for you and our beloved Seikos. I enjoy immensely doing what I can to help you preserve your vintage timepieces. Many of you know the lengths to which I will go to find a part. I can't continue this, however, if my time is tied-up with back and forth e-mails trying to establish for which model I'm tracking down parts.

I don't believe it's too much to ask for co-operation on a matter as simple as giving me the correct information.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

To add to what Swedefreak is asking about, when contacting anyone on the forum to ask for information or help with something, Unless you know that person and are sure that he will recognize you from your correspondence, please take the time to introduce yourself and make a reference to what you are asking about.

You'd be surprised how many e-mails (not PM's) show up with notes like:

"Hey, who's your source for the strap"

That's it, no hello, no introduction, no identification of what topic is being inquired about, no identification of who the person asking is. You would be surprised how often messages like this are received.

Please remember that the individuals receiving these types of notes are people to, not answering services. Please take the time to dispense with the niceties in your communication and to help the person help you, by including references to what is being discussed.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isthmus
To add to what Swedefreak is asking about, when contacting anyone on the forum to ask for information or help with something, Unless you know that person and are sure that he will recognize you from your correspondence, please take the time to introduce yourself and make a reference to what you are asking about.

You'd be surprised how many e-mails (not PM's) show up with notes like:

"Hey, who's your source for the strap"

That's it, no hello, no introduction, no identification of what topic is being inquired about, no identification of who the person asking is. You would be surprised how often messages like this are received.

Please remember that the individuals receiving these types of notes are people to, not answering services. Please take the time to dispense with the niceties in your communication and to help the person help you, by including references to what is being discussed.
A hearty AMEN, Gabe. Manners and courtesy still count with some of us.

Just a note, however, if one "dispenses with the niceties", one is actually omitting them. This is one of those many incongruities of American English that contribute to mis-communication.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swedefreak
"The xxxx-xxxx number on the dial is repeated on the case back."

No. In most vintage Seikos the dial number might be repeated on the case back but is usually different.
I have no Seikos in my possession that do not have the identical 4 numbers dial and case-back.
I have three 9Fs that share the same number on dial and case-back on their white, black and silver dial. That is what you confirm. That the four digits on the dial are NOT the dial partnumber!!!

I repeat:
They are caliber and case type related to the caliber.
The catalogue number will tell you dial type and case finish.
The parts manual for this xxxs-xxxx tells me the part numbers for these dials.
If the dial would be discoloured or replaced, I would need the SBDX00x to tell me the colour and thus which part number from the parts manual.

With Seiko, you wíll get the correct part if you provide the correct part number.
Try that with ´vintage´ italian motrcycles and you will not easily get the part number as there usually ís no manual for the type/year and if you do it is ´generic´.
Try that with vintage english motorcycles and you can be sure that there will be various júst that bit incorrect not suiteable versions for the same bin number even during the same model year run ánd most times three colour coded fit specs. that are need to know....
These motorcycle manufacturers were minute scale operations in both models and production numbers compared to Seiko and also not the the same model generation speed.
That finding the correct part number is not as simple as yelling green dial for a GS is the result of the enórmous number of models and their limited generation time.
You háve to see the system in the light of the complexity of the vást variety of parts over the years.

You may be unhappy but count your blessings. I have quíte different experiences getting old motorcycles on the road.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swedefreak
A hearty AMEN, Gabe. Manners and courtesy still count with some of us.

Just a note, however, if one "dispenses with the niceties", one is actually omitting them. This is one of those many incongruities of American English that contribute to mis-communication.
I am ´into horses´and receive a fair deal of questions that are impossible to deal with without at least various forms of esp. but just aboy all are polite and with introdcution.
That is just horses that are only horses.
I can probably not imagine what cryptic and appearantly blunt request you must regularly receive.


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Old 02-02-2011, 01:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

I know nothing about motorcycles and frankly don't care as I have no interest what so ever. No offense meant, but obscure motorcycle parts just don't relate to watch parts.

I guess, too, in 36 1/2 years of working with Seikos, I know nothing and learned nothing.

I'm done banging my head against the wall here.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Major policy change now in effect...

A simple request that I make three or four times a year has now become a pi$$ing contest for which I have neither time nor interest.

Henceforth, I WILL NOT REPLY to any parts, advice or opinion request that does not include the FULL eight digit movement-casing number from the back of a Seiko or Seiko-made timepieces.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swedefreak

I'm done banging my head against the wall here.
Having a bad day Jonathan ? :'(

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Old 02-02-2011, 02:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
The dial number in many cases is NOT the same as the XXXX-XXXX on the case back (the model #) the first 4 digits are but not the last four.
If you do not know this about vintage SEIKOs, you are going to become very very frustrated.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomoCaballus
I have no Seikos in my possession that do not have the identical 4 numbers dial and case-back.
I have three 9Fs that share the same number on dial and case-back on their white, black and silver dial. That is what you confirm. That the four digits on the dial are NOT the dial partnumber!!!
Petrus, no one is arguing the rest of your point, but trust me when I tell you that on this point you are wrong. what you are seeing might be a coincidence particular to the models you are looking at. It is not even close to being a regular occurrence with most seikos.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...


This could have been such a simple thread
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

PLEASE don't UPSET Sweedfreak The Snow is up past his Booty and it's about 2 degrees and I need my Watch Case finished.


I am Playing but to a Point Serious, What is asked of us, to Help get the services we Need/Want finished in the way the Watchmaker
or Parts Sources or Case men can best serve us Knowing nothing in this area sometimes helps, because whats left is
just Human Kindness I send to you, you want to help me, I should be willing to give you ,who ever you are What
you are asking for to better serve me.


At the end of the Day, as was said and asked What is the big deal in just supplying the info that is requested? ???


Stay Warm Jonathan Spring will come
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isthmus
Petrus, no one is arguing the rest of your point, but trust me when I tell you that on this point you are wrong. what you are seeing might be a coincidence particular to the models you are looking at. It is not even close to being a regular occurrence with most seikos.
Ok.
Like I wrote xxxx-xxxx on dial not equalling xxxx-xxxx on the back is new to me most likely because of my interest in very limited type/range of models.
Now I am aware, I will probably see it confirmed.
After all, we see with our mind, not with our eyes.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technoman
This could have been such a simple thread
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomoCaballus
Ok.
Like I wrote xxxx-xxxx on dial not equalling xxxx-xxxx on the back is new to me most likely because of my interest in very limited type/range of models.
Now I am aware, I will probably see it confirmed.
After all, we see with our mind, not with our eyes.
Just take a look at legitimate SEIKO Bell-matics and you will see examples galore.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please read this. Policy Change - Help me help you...

Let's pause here for just a moment and say, Jonathan, U Da Man. And we owe a debt of thanks for that.

Now, everybody, back to work.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:03 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please read this. Policy Change - Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrollGardener
Let's pause here for just a moment and say, Jonathan, U Da Man. And we owe a debt of thanks for that.

Now, everybody, back to work.

Indeed. Thanks.



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Old 02-02-2011, 04:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please read this. Policy Change - Help me help you...

Life can be so simple Topic starter just asks for this:

'when you ask about parts, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, give me the entire eight digit movement-casing number from the back of your Seiko'

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Old 02-02-2011, 04:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bump-up: Please read this. Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomoCaballus
Ok.
Like I wrote xxxx-xxxx on dial not equalling xxxx-xxxx on the back is new to me most likely because of my interest in very limited type/range of models.
Now I am aware, I will probably see it confirmed.
After all, we see with our mind, not with our eyes.
Not to further hijack this thread, but I have in front of me three vintage Seikos, not because of your posts, but because I'm preparing to send them out for service. I decided to check their numbers when I read it, though, and here is what I found.

Caseback: 7009-8019 Dial: 7009-8010

Caseback: 7006-7017 Dial: 7006-7019

Caseback: 7006-7020 Dial: 7006-7110



Jonathon, here's another vote of thanks for the parts and service you provide to Seiko collectors.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please read this. Policy Change - Help me help you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrollGardener
Let's pause here for just a moment and say, Jonathan, U Da Man. And we owe a debt of thanks for that.

Now, everybody, back to work.
Attaboy!

That's it!

I second this statement to a 'T'...

Count me in in the Team Swedefreak, or Swedefreak's Club.
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