The Case of the Vietnam "SOG" Seiko - 6119-8100/6119-8101 - Page 3 - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 04-12-2016, 06:16 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsandcapp View Post
I agree. Mods, can we make this thread sticky please?

And Lambstew, per your previous post, I think where we differ on this topic is on the 7005-XXXX variant, or what I will refer to as the "Sheppard 7005". The specialforceshistory.com site names the specific operator "Michael Sheppard" as the recipient of the SOG Supply Office-issued watch. And I read that same post on the MWR forums previously, but it all makes much more sense now, as does the passage from the eBay advert, now that I know who "Konrad" is. ; ). I think this may be a watch that Tim did not have a chance to see. As I stated earlier, I am going to request a photo of the back of the watches from specialforceshistory.com and hopefully I will get something back I can share here.

It certainly doesn't solidify the status of my two watches, but I'll continue to research, document and share what I learn here. And I'd like ti duplicate my posts on the MWR, but the darn site doesn't seem to want to confirm my registration.

I`m keeping an open mind as I said and this relates directly to the Sheppard piece. The vet on MWR couldn`t be all places all the time so it`s possible small orders of other models were placed as time went on and the 800x models became discontinued.

Good idea asking to see back pics of specialforceshistorydotcom pieces. Since CISCO records were destroyed at the end of the war all we can do is piece this Seiko history together and so far for me the 800x version is on firmer ground..

Cheers,
Konrad

Last edited by lambstew; 04-12-2016 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:11 PM   #52 (permalink)
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We are now officially "sticky" Konrad. : ) And I sent an email message to Jason at specialforceshistory.com tonight too, asking for some pictures of the backs of both watches. Fingers crossed.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:30 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by carsandcapp View Post
We are now officially "sticky" Konrad. : ) And I sent an email message to Jason at specialforceshistory.com tonight too, asking for some pictures of the backs of both watches. Fingers crossed.

Hey that`s awesome - Thanks Mods! Now that the cats out of the bag it`s the perfect time for this subject to evolve..
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Old 04-13-2016, 06:24 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Your right again, think the prices were high before.
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Old 04-13-2016, 06:30 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LongBike View Post
Aloha ,
Yes they were there and I had a few also, today ... who knows where they went.
Yes these watchs were all over the place and the ... Degar -Montagnards had them.
They were the most dependable guys to have with you too. They were the guys we called ... " Halo's .
They watched everyone to make sure they did not get hurt or taken out. They were given these watchs and they prized them and kept them in good shape too. They would just sit and stare at them on their wrist and when you asked them ......
" Hey Whats Ups ", they would say .... I am a G.I too. We told them sure why not you are my Brother, and they would reply saying
..... " Yes ,Thanks Daiwi ". When around them I made very sure they were well taken off all around. I even gave them my hammock to sleep and I would sleep on the ground by the boat piers. If you ever needed protection
these were the ones to be with. They just despise the V.C. terribly.
" Professional Cross Bow "guys too. I have a few on the other Island at my Mom's house yet.
Aloha
It's a shame more was not donefor them in the end.
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:47 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Thought I'd share a quick update. I did receive a reply from Jason at Specialforceshistory.com. Bad News: Per his reply, as of this moment he is rather busy and said he was not sure when he could pull the watches for photography and that he wasn't particularly interested in wading into an authenticity debate. Good News: it turns out he is only about 45 miles north of me, so I have asked if I could come visit him and the watches in-person thereby relieving him of the photography efforts. I am awaiting his reply.

Also, he stressed his belief that both watches are real SOG pieces, based on two factors: the first being who he purchased the watches from and second and more interestingly, based off his personal interviews with Conrad "Ben" Baker. (Man, what I wouldn't give to know what Ben told Jason). That got me thinking, given this little nugget, does anyone know if Ben Baker is still with us? I could ask Jason via email, but I don't want to just yet, at least not until I receive a reply to my last message.

Maybe someone could inquire about Ben on the MWR site? I would do it myself, but I cannot get that site to send me a new registration email. And I've tried multiple times/emails.

Finally, I thought I'd share some pics of my two SOG suspects. They arrived this week and somewhat to my surprise they both started ticking with just a little coaxing from me. Here they are sitting next to a genuine W.C.C. wrist compass and couple back shots and one movement shot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20160421_151405.jpg (184.6 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20160421_151558.jpg (167.3 KB, 46 views)
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:22 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Thanks for the update..

Nice score on the 8090's and thanks for the update in general. Hopefully you can make a trip out to visit the watches and have that work out at some point. I have no idea if Ben Baker is still alive but that would be amazing if he was and had something to say about the Seiko's..

This 6119-8001 from Dec. 68 arrived recently..

Cheers,

Konrad




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Old 04-21-2016, 04:45 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambstew View Post
Nice score on the 8090's and thanks for the update in general. Hopefully you can make a trip out to visit the watches and have that work out at some point. I have no idea if Ben Baker is still alive but that would be amazing if he was and had something to say about the Seiko's..

This 6119-8001 from Dec. 68 arrived recently..

Cheers,

Konrad




Nice piece. Congrats.

For clarity. My two watches are: an 6106-8219 from what I think is June of '68 and the 6119-8090 from April of '69. I've got a new crystal for the 8090, but part of me doesn't want to install it. But the original crystal is totally cracked and missing a small piece near on the bottom the bezel.
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:04 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Hi - my apologies. I was looking at the 8090 mostly and missed the DX details.. The DX doesn't turn up much so congrats. It's a bit different looking at the dial with the 5 missing..

Cheers,
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:04 PM   #60 (permalink)
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One more interesting aside...apparently Ben Baker was involved in the manufacture of knives at some point in th last 15 years.. I encountered this picture on eBay recently.

[Photo deleted by moderator. Please note that pics of guns, knives and other weapons are not allowed on this forum.]

Last edited by Sir Les; 06-13-2016 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Prohibited subject matter in photo.
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:44 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambstew View Post
Nice score on the 8090's and thanks for the update in general. Hopefully you can make a trip out to visit the watches and have that work out at some point. I have no idea if Ben Baker is still alive but that would be amazing if he was and had something to say about the Seiko's..

This 6119-8001 from Dec. 68 arrived recently..

Cheers,

Konrad

NEWSFLASH!!!


Konrad, I just got off the phone with a gentleman who is connected to Ben via the knife business and according to him Ben IS still with us, at least as of their last conversation about 2 months ago. I am going to see if I can get a phone call with Ben Baker himself. Stay tuned.
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:54 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Default That's incredible news..

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Originally Posted by carsandcapp View Post

NEWSFLASH!!!


Konrad, I just got off the phone with a gentleman who is connected to Ben via the knife business and according to him Ben IS still with us, at least as of their last conversation about 2 months ago. I am going to see if I can get a phone call with Ben Baker himself. Stay tuned.
..if he's willing to only discuss the Seiko's you're in business. Offer to send him a link to this post if you are successful. Tell him we've been waiting a long time for this..

If you get a hold of him, ask if the watch was off the shelf or did Seiko do a more dedicated run since the model seems to rarely turn up on the market and unusually in a chrome case. I'm sure you know all the relevant questions to ask including the hot topic of other models..


Last edited by lambstew; 04-21-2016 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:33 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lambstew View Post
..if he's willing to only discuss the Seiko's you're in business. Offer to send him a link to this post if you are successful. Tell him we've been waiting a long time for this..

If you get a hold of him, ask if the watch was off the shelf or did Seiko do a more dedicated run since the model seems to rarely turn up on the market and unusually in a chrome case. I'm sure you know all the relevant questions to ask including the hot topic of other models..

Konrad, rest assured, if I get this audience with Ben I will be coming to you for some thoughts/ideas.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:42 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Konrad, rest assured, if I get this audience with Ben I will be coming to you for some thoughts/ideas.
Mr. Baker might be amused someone wants to ask him about watches rather than the usual subject matter he can't talk about.. If he is sensitive about discussing other aspects of his former job then I can imagine that the topic of sourcing and issuing of Seiko watches would be the least classified subject in the scheme of things..
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Old 04-27-2016, 07:09 AM   #65 (permalink)
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So on a related subject to these watches.
Many of the picture we see of these watches are on nylon or cotton type straps and many of them have the wrist strap compass. Looking at standard issue wrist strap compasses it looks like they just added the watch to the compass strap
Also I 've seen 2 compasses that are common. One looks to be a older Waltham compass WWII and Korea and in some descriptins of the compass Vietnam is mentioned.
Think it is possible some end up in Vietnam.

Then we have the more current WCC that is described as being issued to paratrooers and MACV-SOG - SPECIAL OPS


Now it seems there maybe a 3rd. Very rare one out there.
A Silva waterproof wrist compass.
A quote from Jungle snafus.comOUR COMPASS
DEFICIENCIES IN VIETNAM
"The overwhelming majority of even our infantrymen in Vietnam did not have compasses, although many recognized the need. Furthermore, the Army’s lensatic and other compasses were not moisture-proof or waterproof. They often became unserviceable, above all in the Mekong Delta. In LCDR Thomas J. Cutler’s Brown Water, Black Berets, a sobering book on the Navy’s fresh-to-brackish water forces in South Vietnam, on page 253 we read “...compass components froze up with regularity.”
Before going to Vietnam in 1967 to work on combat equipment problems, I heard similar accounts of compass failures from Special Forces veterans back from the expanding war. So, with some of the money made available to me by Union Carbide Corporation to improve jungle combat equipment, I went to La Porte, Indiana to the American plant of Silva, Inc. Silva is the Swedish company that makes the world’s best compasses for individuals. In La Porte I learned about the availability of Silva compasses, and with my own money bought 100 waterproof wrist compasses on nylon wristbands. Later, in Vietnam, I and other members of the Science Advisor’s staff gave away large numbers of wrist compasses, including additional hundreds of Silva compasses that I bought with funds made available to me by Union Carbide. We distributed individual compasses to American and Vietnamese officers from the Demilitarized Zone to far down in the Mekong Delta. I gave a few to Aussies and to Special Forces officers at the U.S. Army Special Forces Camp at Lopburi, Thailand. All agreed that every jungle soldier should have a waterproof compass."

Not sure what these Silvas look like.

Last edited by catkicker; 04-27-2016 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 05-10-2016, 07:53 PM   #66 (permalink)
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6619-8060 July 67



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Old 05-11-2016, 12:02 AM   #67 (permalink)
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This is the 6619-8060 that Spencer Klien restored

https://youtu.be/NRK2r_1Umhw

What is its relationship to macv/sog in Vietnam.

I guess what I am asking is when I am discussing this watch with people how do I accurately discuss it's relationship to the special forces in Vietnam?

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Old 05-11-2016, 04:17 AM   #68 (permalink)
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This is the 6619-8060 that Spencer Klien restored

https://youtu.be/NRK2r_1Umhw

What is its relationship to macv/sog in Vietnam.

I guess what I am asking is when I am discussing this watch with people how do I accurately discuss it's relationship to the special forces in Vietnam?

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Spencer did a nice job on the 6619-8060

Last edited by catkicker; 05-11-2016 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:38 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Spencer did a nice job on the 6619-8060
He really did. It's a great watch.

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Old 05-11-2016, 09:54 AM   #70 (permalink)
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He really did. It's a great watch.

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I like my $50.00 one better
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:27 AM   #71 (permalink)
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I like my $50.00 one better
Lol.

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Old 05-11-2016, 10:37 AM   #72 (permalink)
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What is its relationship to macv/sog in Vietnam. Was this the precursor to the issued watch?

I guess what I am asking is when I am discussing this watch with people how do I accurately discuss it's relationship to the special forces in Vietnam?


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Old 05-14-2016, 07:16 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Found a great repro. 18mm watch strap for these watches
ebay # 401116903819
Pricey but they look great
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:16 PM   #74 (permalink)
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6619-8060 July 67



Aloha catkicker,
Mine Says Aloha , and I have one like this also (Sample Pic. )( Maybe some extra help information here again. ) I was there from .... " Late-July 1964 to August 1970 ".
That is a very nice sample there. This one is just picked up and it starts running immediately. It is in Top Shape also and inside.

I belonged to group's call the ..... " Gamewardens of Vietnam ", also known as ... " The Black Beret's of Vietnam TF-116 ".
We are all called ... " RIVER RAT'S , U.S. Navy UDT / SEAL's / MAC-SOG / HAL- 1 / Seawolves ..... also included.
All areas from .... Vung Tau up to Cambodia .
( Task Force RIVERRON 1 ...... is our resurrected guys on ... The Euphrates River.

We are the original ....... " Apocalypse Now " Guys the movie was made about. ( The Brownwater Navy ".
We are the Original ......" Mekong River Patrol PBR Boat, Task Forces TF-116 ..... Guys.
We all served together and participated with the .... MAC-SOG Guys and assisted them with cover while on the Mekong River and other places
while they were on the move. Also the HALO - 1 Guy's. ( Over head Chopper's that were part of all our outfit's together also. )
These watch's were used by many from what we saw, but many used their own choice's. Majority of those in Vietnam used Seiko and other watch's because the issued ones were as like .... " Cracker Jack Watch's ". Because of the Mansoon's and Mud and all that junk there and especially the Humid Climate many never used what was issued... they threw them or gave away.
When the Guys left many of their watch's were given to our very close Partners that were with us. These were the men of the Tribe called .....
Montagnard's . These people were mainly Mountain Dweller ( Nomad's ), that eventually became like our own Brothers and Sisters while we were there.
The regular Vietnamese people use to call them ...." MOI ", which means Savages. The name ....Montagnard was given to them by the French when they first came there and began to be friendly with them. These tribes of people would rather be called ... " DEGA ". We taught them to use Modern Weapons but they preferred to use their own and were deadly with it.
" The Cross Bow ", Draw poundage of the Bow to cock it was around ...50 to 150 pounds to load it, and that was a massive impact to the one that received the arrow. It would most of the time go right through the Body of a person. The North V.C. extremely hated the village people, but the best
part of it all ..... " We just loved them and we were great friends " also.
" The Green Beret's " love them very much and took good care of them also and we did also with what we had. These watch's were given to them when we left by many also and they cherished it and also while we were there we gave it to them among many other things. Once you took care of these people they stuck like Glue to you and took great care of you also, even if it cost them their lives. We ate, slept , patrolled and did every thing with them and we were all very tight people.
Hope this helps a little Sir.

Mine says Aloha : These are ..... 6619-8060
Serial No are in the : 793953 ... etc.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SOG-MACV.jpg (144.1 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg $_3.JPG (43.7 KB, 36 views)
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File Type: jpg thOX1LOQLW.jpg (9.4 KB, 302 views)
File Type: jpg thL94WD0OG.jpg (13.3 KB, 302 views)
File Type: jpg b8024cbe4e1e74b8b7ccffcb59147fcc.jpg (73.4 KB, 32 views)

Last edited by LongBike; 12-11-2016 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:56 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Fascinating connection between these watches and the US Military. The Seiko 6119-8100 and 8101 appear to be a smaller in size. Does anyone know the lug width of these watches. Looks like they might be 18mm?
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