Topic: Help required to date a potential 6309-7040 purchase (Read 745 times)

FoweyUK · « **on:** January 21, 2012, 05:43:52 PM »

I am looking at bidding for a 6309-7040 but the seller states "6309-7040, 150m and serial number 175085 dating it to July 1971"

Having done a little research on the Isthmus Original Diver Reference and this model was in I understand in production from 1976 - 1988 so I am a little confused?

It would be really useful if I could date from serial numbers myself can somone enlighten me on how to do this?

There are also seemingly two dials one having SCUBAPRO 450 on the dial and one without, what is the difference? Is the SCUBAPRO version more rare etc?

There is so much to learn here but it is great fun, any advice greatly appreciated.

bricem13 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:54:07 PM »

hi

shall be july 1981. Look at the dial and the guide from Isthmus if it has suwa symbol or not.

In general the scubapro dials a reproduction dial (if you spot one with original at nice price then you're lucky). Normal all dials have beveled day/date windows (the non suwa have less bevel but still there are).

Ideally post some pics here, people will tell if original or aftermarket.

regards,
Brice

Luka-San · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:54:31 PM »

The watch you are looking at is from July 1981.

In 1971 the 6309's didn't exist yet.

Date calculator: First digit is year, second digit is month from 1 to 0 and N for November and D for December. As the 6309's are produced between 1976 and 1988 the only possible date for your watch is Juli 1981. 10 years earlier or later is not possible.
You have to know the production times of the various movements...

The scubapro dial is rare as long as it is original, most are not. The 6309 did never come with a scubapro dial, that was the 6306.

cbrmike · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:56:40 PM »

Serial #175085 would be July 1981 for a 6309-7040. The Scubapro 450 dial could be an aftermarket reproduction dial but would have to see a photo to determine.

Spencer PK · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:58:41 PM »

scubapros are so rare, and so often faked, that's unless you're an expert or very lucky, it's probably best to stay clear. Especially if the seller also doesn't understand the dating system. Just my two cents.

FoweyUK · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:21:53 PM »

Wow guys thanks for the fast and comprehensive feedback. I have decided not to bother with the SCUBAPRO which the seller incidently clearly states is a replacement after market dial.

All of the watches I am looking to bid on are in fact almost certainly refurbished with new dials, hands, bezel inserts, polished cases etc.

This suits me as I am not looking to add genuine vintage divers to my collection, they are too expensive and would be better being preseved in a glass case rather than on my wrist while out and about swimming etc. I guess what I am looking for is a genuine watch that has been expertly refurbished/serviced whilst being an accurate reproduction of the original, keeps good time and is watertight.

A couple of other questions:
What is the SUWA mark, I could not find reference to this in Divers Reference?
Does the same method of dating via serial number apply to all Seiko divers?

Hopefully I will have a piece of nostalgic if not totally original Seiko in my collection soon if I manage to win the one shown below.

seikola · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2012, 12:35:22 AM »

Hi
be sure to get it pressure tested if planning to swim wearing it, the fleaby ad for that watch says "I cannot guarantee its water resistance.."
Seikola

FoweyUK · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2012, 01:06:53 AM »

Absolutely. It just wouldn't be right if I couldn't use it for what it was intended. Do you know where I might be able to get that done.
I got a refurbed 7002 today that was stated as tested to 150m and I had it at the bottom of a full bath of water for 5 hours and it is ok, but maybe the test needs to be a bit more rigorous.

OtherJohnUK · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2012, 12:00:24 AM »

I have found a local jeweller who will do pressure tests for £5 a watch.

Thats not much to pay for your peace of mind if you can find the same deal. The bathtub test could work out more expensive.

IMO vintage divers that get used and are 30-40 years old are entitled to a few aftermarket parts here and there, particularly where genuine parts are no longer available. So dont worry about authenticity. Ask your questions on here as there is a wealth of knowledge waiting to be passed on.

And welcome to the madness............

OtherJohnUK

FoweyUK · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2012, 12:20:02 AM »

I have a 6309-7040 and a 7002-700A enroute the former totally overhauled, serviced with new gaskets and pressure tested to 150m and the second reported as not tested so I will need to find somewhere to get them done, preferably, locally or in the UK that I can send by post.
I agree the bathtub test could prove costly

There are many opinions regarding aftermarket parts and at the end of the day different people like different things, I am new to this hobby (obsession) and I have been taken aback by the staggering amount of knowledge amassed by the members of this forum not to mention their patience, kindness and humour.
They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and without that fact we would have no room for discussion, debate or banter.
Spork next on the hitlist that hopefully wont be as complicated

reorx · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2012, 02:53:34 PM »

Hmmm, so if 6309-7040 production years are 1976-1988, what if the serial numbers start with 6, 7 or 8? Couldnt they be either 1976 or 1986, 1977 or 1987, and 1978 or 1988 respectively?

My personal 6309-7040's serial starts with 8, so woulnt know if its 1978 or 1988. How can i pinpoint?

Thanks!

StartSomething · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:11:01 PM »

Quote from: reorx on February 02, 2012, 02:53:34 PM

Hmmm, so if 6309-7040 production years are 1976-1988, what if the serial numbers start with 6, 7 or 8? Couldnt they be either 1976 or 1986, 1977 or 1987, and 1978 or 1988 respectively?

My personal 6309-7040's serial starts with 8, so woulnt know if its 1978 or 1988. How can i pinpoint?

Thanks!

Easy, that a look here:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,26814.msg158892.html#msg158892

In brief:

Until September 1981, the caseback engravements read 'Water Resist Japan A'. From October 1981, the 'Japan' was omitted.

Best,
Hermann

Technoman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:49:23 PM »

Quote from: reorx on February 02, 2012, 02:53:34 PM

Hmmm, so if 6309-7040 production years are 1976-1988, what if the serial numbers start with 6, 7 or 8? Couldnt they be either 1976 or 1986, 1977 or 1987, and 1978 or 1988 respectively?

My personal 6309-7040's serial starts with 8, so woulnt know if its 1978 or 1988. How can i pinpoint?

Thanks!

There are other visual differences between the early and later 6309-704X's that help with this determination, some of which relate to markings on the dial, but the easiest single clue to use is to see if your caseback has the word 'JAPAN' on it. If it does say Japan, then for a watch serial number starting with a 6, 7 or 8, it would be 1976, 1977 or 1978 respectively. If it does NOT say Japan, then it would be 1986, 1987 or 1988.

Hope that helps...

Jim C · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2012, 07:52:54 PM »

Has anyone actually seen a 6309-704x marked earlier than January 1977?

Seikozen · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2012, 12:09:47 AM »

Jim Only on my 6306-7000 July 1976 -- the earliest 6309-704X is April 1977 This is what I
have come to Believe the 6306-700X was Made before Yet all I read says they were Made at the Same time?

and somewhere I read that 6309s were First???

It will be all seen in Time Due to Hermann and John keeping a Log ? of many many Case backs

I Trust in time we will see the 6306s with the Earliest Dates

Jim C · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2012, 01:16:48 AM »

I've had two 6309s from early '77, one from January and one from February. I seem to recall seeing at least one other from January, so they were made at least that early. I'd guess the movements were probably being made in '76, possibly even some non-divers watches, but I keep an eye on the 704x watches and have not seen any from '76, only 6306s.

And that one is gorgeous, Russell.

Lucilinburhuc · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2012, 09:07:28 AM »

I've seen some 6309's and none I saw was made in 1976. Earliest: januari 1977. And like Seikozen says: There are 1976 6306's

Ron

Technoman · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2012, 01:14:14 PM »

After many years, across numbers of forums and hundred if not thousands of Seiko and dive watch collectors, nobody has ever been able to produce a 1976 6309 caseback pic.

So, I am therefore 99.9% certain they don't exist. I would be 100% certain but since I came across, and now own this October 1979 6105-8119, it appears that almost nothing is certain... (yes, the watch is dirty, took this pic as soon as I got it and have yet to update it..)

mario_d · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2012, 01:35:09 PM »

my earliest 6309 is number 2867 (if the serial number of the very first produced 6309 starts with YM0000) from January 1977. I wonder how many were produced in January 1977....

j111dja · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2012, 02:44:55 PM »

I spotted this supposed 1971 Seiko 6309 Diver on the bay and contacted the seller as follows:"Can you please let me know what is "rare", "extremely rare" or "super rare" about this watch (as per your listing) as it is covered in after market parts? Is it not fairer to prospective buyers to list the replacement after market parts on your listing, like the dial, hands and bezel insert as examples? It is actually a July 1981 model. Seiko never made the 6309-7040 in 1971".

I got no response.,

Dasher · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:32:21 PM »

FoweyUK - the SUWA mark is that little lightning bolt, double-s looking item right below the 150 on your photos of your prospective watch dial.

Dan.

Seikozen · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2012, 07:45:29 PM »

Brother when they say" Never say Never" I would have LOST every Thing I would Have If

I was given a Bet that there is a 1979- 6105-8119 Up until Yours the one
1978 Big Tim and Or patrick and that was out of Canada's Seiko Repair Center

I would have given 10 to 1 ODDS

It's a Humbling Thought To Be 100%

Sure lol

a Humbling Thought that I pray will keep me with More of an Open Mind

and Never Say Never" Has a New Meaning

FoweyUK · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2012, 10:44:48 PM »

Just received my first 6309-7040 serial 176024 which has been refurbished by an Ebay seller in the Phillipines (came highly reccomended) and the watch looks fantastic, more than I hoped for but the crown does not screw down so I am really disappointed and it has spoilt the whole experience a bit for me. I even watched Apocalype Now last Sunday to prepare myself for the Captain Willard experience

Have emailed the seller and will be asking for a refund, repair or replacement.

Buying vintage is not at all like buying new Seiko divers, I have a 7002-700A with a bezel that wont rotate as well from an Ebay seller, so I am losing a little faith in that source, or maybe this is just part of the learning curve.

Gonna order me a new Spork on bracelet from chronograph.com to cheer myself up, I have heard that they are highly reputable.

TheTigerUK · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2012, 10:57:03 PM »

Quote from: FoweyUK on February 03, 2012, 10:44:48 PM

been refurbished by an Ebay seller in the Phillipines

jkchua · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2012, 12:15:42 AM »

Sorry about that. Who was the seller?

Author Topic: Help required to date a potential 6309-7040 purchase (Read 745 times)