Topic: Alarm wont ring on Bell matic. (Read 403 times)

slipperywhen wet · « **on:** January 13, 2012, 11:22:36 PM »

Just got a lovely Bell matic 4006-6016 off ebay delivered today in beautiful condition. Tried the alarm function once and it worked fine. Tried it later and it dont ring, just a click . Ant ideas guys?

Do i need to reset anything?

?

StartSomething · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2012, 11:59:18 PM »

Er, did you WIND the alarm?

The auto winding mechanism is for the timekeeping component of the watch only, while the alarm mechanism has a separate barrel which needs to be wound by hand via (a) the crown in initial position with (b) the alarm button in initial position.

Best,
Hermann

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2012, 12:07:39 AM »

Yeah, push it in and wind it but still nothing. Very annoying. It sounds like its winding ie, ratchety clicks but when the dial is turned to the alarm time it just clicks. I have read the origional instruction manual. Did something break

??

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2012, 06:56:15 PM »

Anybody, dont wanna send it back if its an easy fix.

Same as this one......[size=78%]http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php?topic=25799.0[/size]

JohnN · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:34:38 PM »

Don't give up, someone will respond. Could be an easy fix.

StartSomething · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2012, 09:43:21 PM »

Ok,

with my very limited watchmaking knowledge, I will try my best :-)

So to begin with just to make sure:
- you wound the spring, there is a clicking noise when you do so, and after a number of crown turns, there is considerable resistance indicating that the spring is fully wound (IMO this should mean that the alarm spring is intact i. e. not broken)?
- you have pulled the alarm button to first position and then, upon alignment of time and alarm time you heard a soft clicking noise, but no ring?

My educated guess would be that pulling the alarm button does not release the alarm hammer and thus prevents the bell from ringing... The bad thing about this: the mechanism is on the dial side, so to check out whether it is working you need to remove dial and hands...

Kindly drop SCWF member rileynp a private message. He is highly knowledgeable when it comes to technical issues with Seiko movements, so I am sure he will have lots of more details and possibilities to provide you with!

Best,
Hermann

rileynp · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2012, 09:58:59 PM »

No need for a PM- I'm in just as much dark as anyone else without having it in front of me. Is there a sound (like a dull "click") made when you pull the alarm button to the "out" position? Does the alarm button still quickset the date when pressed inward all the way?
If you fully understand how the watch is supposed to work (the instruction manual is a good starting place) and it worked fine one minute and not the next, I'd suspect a broken alarm mainspring- you'd be able to turn the crown forever without feeling you've reached a stopping point if this were the case. It is possible a deformed inner coil of the alarm mainspring would show the same symptoms if the arbor couldn't catch on the mainspring properly, but it is unlikely this would be an intermittent issue- it shouldn't have worked the first time you tried if this were the case. Even if it is something else in the dial side alarm train as Hermann correctly mentions, it would require a movement service to fully correct, so I'm not sure what the point would be in guessing at it now. There is no further simple adjustment that can be done, either with the watch closed or opened.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2012, 11:33:53 PM »

Thanks guys,
when i first unpacked the watch i gave it a couple of 1/4 turns back and forth between my thumb and finger.(Dont recall resistance building as i didnt wind very much) Pulled out the button and yes it sorta clicked out. Then pulled out the crown and twisted it to check 1; if it would ring and 2; if the markings lined up to the hour hand. So it rang briefly and operated the ring where it should have. Tried it later to show someone and there was no noticable resistance building when i wound the alarm.

Its a beautiful watch so well worth getting it sorted. Everything else works, the push for advancing date and it is very accurate .

I can try most things people suggest but not confidant about removing hands or face just yet.( Would like to practice on something less valuable)

I really appreciate peoples time to respond and help as its a new hobby for me and one which i find very satisfying.

Sean

StartSomething · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2012, 11:44:34 PM »

Quote from: slipperywhen wet on January 14, 2012, 11:33:53 PM

I really appreciate peoples time to respond and help as its a new hobby for me and one which i find very satisfying.

Sean, you are most welcome - and I can only agree with you :-)

If you turn the crown clockwise in initial position with the alarm button in inital position, you hear a soft clicking noise but you can turn the crown infinitely without resistance, then as suggested before it sounds like a broken alarm spring...

If so, certainly not impossible to replace, but requiring a complete disassembly and most probably a donor watch/movement since NOS parts are hard to find...

Still, a little strange, I have close to 30 4006A movements, none of which has a broken alarm spring

Best,
Hermann

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:11:10 AM »

Thanks Hermann,

yeah strange that i literally only unwrapped it and it rang only once. What would a replacement cost including fitting.....euros approx??? If i could find a new spring that is.

StartSomething · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:30:11 AM »

Sean,

I think I could supply you with a usable pre-used spring at shipment cost - if that is what you want.

Considering servicing the 4006A: despite the low price (and market value

) of these pieces, the movement inside the Bell-Matic is one of the most complex Vintage Seiko movements, resulting in considerable watchmaker efforts.

Where I am located (Austria), the servicing costs are in the range of 150-350 Euros...

That is basically why I am tinkering with them myself

.
Apart from money saved, this aspect of my hobby has only increased my fascination for these mechanical marvels :-)

Best,
Hermann

haloeight · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:59:59 AM »

I have a movement which does exactly the same thing, I haven't got round to fixing it yet.

Long story short, it is one of two things, its either an overwound alarm spring (easy fix) or the hammer release mechanism (on the dial side as StartSmething mentions), is playing up. The hammer release system will need to be rebuilt in accordance with the technical guide, and may need parts replaced. This will require the dial, hands and calendar system to be removed from the movement.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2012, 01:13:49 AM »

Again, thanks Lads.

So an overwound spring??? I did show the watch to a friend who may have wound it on while viewing it. I certainly didnt. How would this be fixed/unwound???

haloeight · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2012, 08:05:55 AM »

OK, this is a pretty easy job if you're the adventurous type, but also a little fiddly.

Basically you'll need to start by removing the automatic winding bridge.

Then what you see in the image below is exposed.

To relieve the tension on the spring, you'll need to very carefully let the ratchet off. If you look closely on the right of the ratchet, there is a tiny spring, this is the spring that pushes the ratchet gear on to the winding gear, hence stopping it from backing off. These are a bit more durable than the mainspring and there isnt much room for damage. So to let it off, you can put a thin screwdriver between the ridge on the bridge and the ratchet. Then turn the screwdriver very gently clockwise, and the tension should let off enough to make the alarm work, assuming thats the problem.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2012, 11:40:58 AM »

Thanks so much for the time your putting in to this for me.

Alas, i have done as you said but still nothing so it must be the spring. Is it too big a challenge to go at this do you think???

rileynp · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2012, 03:39:47 PM »

I'm not sure I understand what would be accomplished by messing with the alarm ratchet spring (actual name is "intermediate wheel rocker for alarm", part # 934805), assuming the alarm mainspring is broken or deformed. While this rocker both acts as a click for the alarm mainspring as well as transferring energy to the alarm mechanism when necessary, moving it about manually shouldn't "fix" anything with the alarm mainspring. The alarm mainspring is installed directly into the main plate. To remove it, you are looking at completely removing the bridge side parts, and it would be foolish to do so without servicing the rest of the watch, at least if long-term reliability and performance are desirable. Perhaps my confusion stems from the fact that there is no such thing as an overwound mainspring- there is a mainspring that is broken, or a blockage further down in the flow of power that prevents a mainspring from unwinding, but "overwound" is a term without technical meaning. And diagnosing from our screens, we're still not sure the alarm mainspring is the issue.

Perhaps I am being irrational, but I also feel that encouraging anyone to take apart a micro-mechanical object without knowing their unique set of skills, abilities, and natural inclinations is irresponsible, and one should feel personally responsible for the outcome of such advice, if not legally responsible. Given our shared passion, none of us wants to know we helped cause damage to a watch, but we are in effect doing just that if we advise an inexperienced person to delve into what should be reserved for those who are trained. Perhaps I have a misplaced respect both for watches and those whose profession it is to service them, but thinking there is nothing to the art and science of horological upkeep is short-changing those who have dedicated themselves and their livelihood to the watchmaking profession. This feeling has been coming up recently for me due to other posts elsewhere, so I don't intend to direct this diatribe solely to haloeight (who I know is just trying to be helpful). Others obviously disagree, and that is understandable, but this is my viewpoint.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2012, 03:57:47 PM »

I totally agree with you and being an Engineer feel the same on lots of other forums/fora

Just new to this hobby and it is just a hobby and an appreciation for the fabulous engineering that goes into watchmaking.

Just cant really justify spending more on the watch when i can get another for similar money that works.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2012, 11:15:43 PM »

Would anyone quote me for a. an alarm spring and b. supply and fitting of said spring. Bear in mind i am in Ireland.

If i get a reasonable quote the seller will allow same amount off.

Cheers.

giwatcher · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2012, 10:46:15 PM »

There are lots of replies to this post by those more knowledgable than I. Would someone be willing to look at my post and offer an opinion about the alarm that won't stop ringing?
http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,27486.0.html
Surely, there seems to be so much understanding about the mechanics of making the alarm ring, that
someone has an educated opinion about what would make it ring constantly? My
watchmaker thought he could handle the bellmatic without prior experience with this movement, but now he is stumped, and I have no local options.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2012, 10:59:55 PM »

i was googling my alarm problem and found your problem!!!! It was the alarm lever that was worn. If i can find the link i will post it.

To Hermann, didnt see the bit where you offered me a spring sorry . Peter has offered one to me now that i have found that it is broken.

Anyways, this is one fabulous forum for Bellmatic lovers and as i am now totally addicted to them i intend to stay on here for some time .

Thanks to all.

slipperywhen wet · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:10:25 PM »

Here it is

http://thewatchspotblog.com/?p=136

JohnN · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2012, 04:00:01 AM »

Quote from: slipperywhen wet on January 17, 2012, 11:10:25 PM

Here it is
http://thewatchspotblog.com/?p=136

Rich has always been a worthwhile resource in my experience.

Author Topic: Alarm wont ring on Bell matic. (Read 403 times)