How do you guys feel about off-set date windows?

[Jake B]

How do you guys feel about off-set date windows?  While I'm designing the "Tsunami II" , I'm contemplating using an off-set date window to avoid having to alter the shape of the case and crown guard area.  So, love 'em?...hate 'em?...meh?

[anzac1957]

Works well with some dials.. 

[Spencer PK]

do you mean not on the plane of the watch, like at 4 o'clock like the S-waves had, or the new 4r37?

[Jake B]

Works well with some dials.. 

Yep, that's what I mean Spencer.  And I agree..only with some dials. 
 
I love it on this one (WUS group project dial)

 
but I can't see it working with say, the 007 dial.  I think the dial really needs to have angular  indices.

[hans caravan]

I like date windows at the 4 o'clock position. Keeps the dial symmetrical (assuming there are larger indices in the 12, 3, 6, & 9 positions). Also allows lume in the 3 o'clock area. (personal beef with most skx divers)

[Spencer PK]

It's actually my least favorite thing about that slide-rule watch of mine.  I really wish they'd gone traditional with it.

[Jake B]

Here lies my difficulty...
 
-The date window on the 6105 is at 3:00, and the crown is at 4:00
-Modern movements allow for window at 3:00 and crown at 3:45
 
So, unless I want to alter the case to put the crown at 3:45, then I have to make a compromise and move the date window somewhere other than 3:00.    For the Tsunami, the solution was simple since the case
is symetrical...just move the crown position up a bit.  BUT, with the 6105 case, move that crown up a bit, and the crown guard area is significantly altered, and not for the better.

[hks3sgte]

3 o'clock date wheel or no date, please. That funky 4 o'clock stuff just looks tacky.... my opinion, of course. And BTW, the original Tsunami is perfect in every way, I don't see how a different date position would make an advancement in its design.

[Jake B]

3 o'clock date wheel or no date, please. That funky 4 o'clock stuff just looks tacky.... my opinion, of course. And BTW, the original Tsunami is perfect in every way, I don't see how a different date position would make an advancement in its design.

Hey, thanks very much for the kind words.   What I'm referring to as the "Tsunami II" though, is the next watch in the line which I've been planning for some time now (Noah and I committed ourselves to this back in 2010).  It'll have the same specs, compatible parts, and will be an homage to the 6105-8110 diver.  That's why, if you read above, I'm running into this issue..because of the case shape, and the relative compatibility of the parts.  So you'd say either at 3:00 or not at all?

[anzac1957]

Have you looked at date window at 9 like used in Orient divers.. Revolver, OS300, M-Force 200m Air Diver..

[water70proof]

Jake, the only thing I'll add is that when it's done right, you can satisfy the guys who need the date and many of the "no-date" people more concerned with the aesthetic balance of the dial as well.  Two examples from my own watch box are my PRS-17A and Eterna GMT.  The date is there when you need it but unobtrusive (black date wheel under a black dial).  Particularly nice when you want a "3" on your dial, but that's probably not an issue for the watch you're planning.  Retaining the crown near 4 o'clock is important for a 6105 homage though, IMO.

[hks3sgte]

I just believe the dial is more balanced with a date at 3. It is the traditional date location, as well. Sure, others have used date at other places but none of them are classic in design. That, to me is key when designing a classic watch

[curtisjf]

Hi Jake,


What would the design be like if you chose a slightly different case style? Such as the 6000, 8000, or 8009? Maybe it wouldn't affect the overall look as much as with the very pronounced crown guard area of the 8110 style. Then you could keep the date window at 3 and still come off with a winner. No offence intended as I think the 8110 case style is a terrific one to pay homage to.


Curt

[TheFastest]

Jake, these things and how they are often (if not usually) implemented is one of my pet-peeves (as I'm sure you'll see)! 

They typically look "stuck-in" to me.  If used, I prefer they match the surrounding dial-color with numerals that match others on the dial.  I also prefer that the numerals be vertical and not simply oriented in a circular fashion that looks like the date should have been displayed at 3:00.

It amazes me how many and what otherwise fine (and often expensive) watches use this "cheap looking" (to me) approach. 

Obviously, just my nickel's worth, but I have a number of otherwise excellent watches that could have been MUCH nicer had the date window look like it was a part of the original dial design, instead of an after-though cut into the dial.

All the best on your project. 

[Jake B]

Jake, the only thing I'll add is that when it's done right, you can satisfy the guys who need the date and many of the "no-date" people more concerned with the aesthetic balance of the dial as well.  Two examples from my own watch box are my PRS-17A and Eterna GMT.  The date is there when you need it but unobtrusive (black date wheel under a black dial).  Particularly nice when you want a "3" on your dial, but that's probably not an issue for the watch you're planning.  Retaining the crown near 4 o'clock is important for a 6105 homage though, IMO.

See...I tend to agree with this.  It's the way that I'm leaning. White on black wheel.   Really, if that crown is moved up, it ruins the whole design of the case, and the crown guard looks off. That Precista is an excellent example of it done right.

[Jake B]

@ The Fastest...  I hear you, and it's a tough call.  That's why I'm asking you fellas your opinions.  I'm thinking though that it's easier, and better, to work at getting a dial/window combo to look aesthetically pleasing than to compromise the shape of the case.

[gunga]

I love the 4.30 date, white on black. Like a Spork or say your pilot style mod.

[MartinCRC]

Jake, could you not get a custom date wheel made? Of course that would imply additional cost but you could then keep date at 3 and crown at 4. Otherwise, I would favour the Precista PRS17 solution.
Martin

How do you guys feel about off-set date windows?  While I'm designing the "Tsunami II" , I'm contemplating using an off-set date window to avoid having to alter the shape of the case and crown guard area.  So, love 'em?...hate 'em?...meh?

[Jake B]

Jake, could you not get a custom date wheel made? Of course that would imply additional cost but you could then keep date at 3 and crown at 4. Otherwise, I would favour the Precista PRS17 solution.
Martin

Well...SII right now has a freeze on orders for mechanical movements, and any orders that got in before the freeze are on 9 months lead time. Also, the price has gone up significantly in the past couple of years.  I shudder to think of what I'd be lookin' at for special order movements...both time and price-wise.  I know that I could use ETA, or Miyota, or other...but for a classic Seiko diver homage?    Sacrilege.

[kenny the kidd]

A Mi? I dont care! when Im drinking beer it looks straight to me

[zenomega]

Got to say Ive always prefered the date at 4.30 instead of 3.00 its a more natural angle to view the date too. If you look down at the watch its in the correct orientation without having to raise your arm. Zeniths have used this position for the date a lot on both their classic designs and modern too, and is one of my favorite things about them. But each to their own 

[bur]

Any possibility at all of a bone frog dial version 

[Sweephand]

this is probably no help at all, but I like the way Citizen printed the day wheel on this, so the figures are vertical in the window - looks properly designed for that position to me. I guess that would require a custom wheel though...




Stephen

[MartinCRC]

this is probably no help at all, but I like the way Citizen printed the day wheel on this, so the figures are vertical in the window - looks properly designed for that position to me. I guess that would require a custom wheel though...

Stephen

I was thinking the same thing but if you are going to get a custom wheel, you might as well just go for date at 3.  On that subject, notwithstanding supply issues of the Seiko movement, would it not be feasible to order custom date wheels separately and then swap them for the standard wheel after the fact?  Depending on the number of watches being produced this might be a pain if Jake was going it himself but could be outsourced to a local watchmaker perhaps?

Martin

[TheTigerUK]

If there is a day/date i really prefer it in the "normal" position at 3.00.


The Orients place theres at the 9 and for me that is a killer even on nice ones as i feel i am wearing the watch upside down, Neil loaned me his Orient Star and i really liked it but the "upside" down dial was a complete no no for me a couple of times after taking it off i went to put it on the wrong way, shame i could have easily lusted after one of those.