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Author Topic: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)  (Read 1146 times)

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Online TheTigerUK

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Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« on: July 17, 2011, 06:40:09 PM »
Herman emailed me the other day asking if i had ever waterproof tested any of my Belles of which he knows i have a few and the simple answer was no as i have this stupid aversion to getting any of my watches wet including the divers but it got me thinking so...........

This is one of my favourite Belles (bought from Lew B) quite some time ago, so this afternoon i replaced all the gaskets with OEM new ones even though i knew the gaskets were fine from when i last did it but better safe than sorry :)

New OEM crystal and gaskets for case back, crown and pusher.

I tested it first at 3Bar then 4 Bar and then at 6 Bar which is the maximum my tester will go to and joy upon joy no bubbles from any were so pretty happy with that and nice to know a Belle with good gaskets could survive a dipping of sorts.

At the end i just tried it on the Timegraph and all seems well in that area as well.

Sorry about the poor pics but you will get the idea.







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Offline reklawg

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2011, 07:20:03 PM »
That'll be your " Diving Belle" then John !


Sorry... Bad pun.




Kind Regards


Graham



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Offline S.L

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 07:33:12 PM »
Very cool, thanks for the pictorial!
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Online TheTigerUK

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 07:40:12 PM »
Quote from: reklawg on July 17, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
That'll be your " Diving Belle" then John !


Sorry... Bad pun.




Kind Regards


Graham

This one is the Diving Belle :)

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Online Spencer PK

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 07:51:01 PM »
what happens if the watch "fails" the pressure test?  Does the movement get inundated with water?
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 08:00:29 PM »
I know what you mean John. 
I've also got a tester but so far I've only used it on one watch - An H558 Arnie.  It also passed with flying colours BTW.  It just  somehow seems unnatural, even for divers, to dunk them in water!
In reply to Spencer, the water will only infiltrate the movement if you allow the pressure to fall to atnospheric.  If there is a leak in the gaskets, the inside of the watch will have reached 6 bar (or whatever the test pressure is) of air.  Then, as you slowly decrease the pressure (in water) the air will escape from the watch and you can see the bubbles escaping.  As long as air is escaping, water can't get in.  You have to lift the watch above the surface of the water before you depressurise it.
Hope that makes sense?
Kind regards
Dave
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Offline SurfingSeiko

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2011, 09:15:21 PM »
Great photos, John!!! :bravo_2: 
 
Mark
 
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Offline SurfingSeiko

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2011, 09:16:25 PM »
Now I know how that works. Thanks Dave. :great:
 
Mark
 
Quote from: DaveS on July 17, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
I know what you mean John. 
I've also got a tester but so far I've only used it on one watch - An H558 Arnie.  It also passed with flying colours BTW.  It just  somehow seems unnatural, even for divers, to dunk them in water!
In reply to Spencer, the water will only infiltrate the movement if you allow the pressure to fall to atnospheric.  If there is a leak in the gaskets, the inside of the watch will have reached 6 bar (or whatever the test pressure is) of air.  Then, as you slowly decrease the pressure (in water) the air will escape from the watch and you can see the bubbles escaping.  As long as air is escaping, water can't get in.  You have to lift the watch above the surface of the water before you depressurise it.
Hope that makes sense?
Kind regards
Dave
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Offline UKRower

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 09:55:57 PM »
Quote from: Spencer PK on July 17, 2011, 07:51:01 PM
what happens if the watch "fails" the pressure test?  Does the movement get inundated with water?


Thankfully not. :) The pressure initially comes from pressurising the watch in the air above the water (effectively making the atmosphere 6 bar, etc.) and then immersing the watch in the water. If the watch is 'leaky', the air that was pushed into the watch will escape back out, forming bubbles around the gaskets - and saving the innards of the watch from water ingress.


Edit: Had I read all the responses carefully, I would have seen that this was already answered by our man Dave..  :-[  Attention to detail, Ian, attention to detail..  ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by UKRower »
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Online Spencer PK

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2011, 10:34:52 PM »
Quote from: UKRower on July 17, 2011, 09:55:57 PM

Thankfully not. :) The pressure initially comes from pressurising the watch in the air above the water (effectively making the atmosphere 6 bar, etc.) and then immersing the watch in the water. If the watch is 'leaky', the air that was pushed into the watch will escape back out, forming bubbles around the gaskets - and saving the innards of the watch from water ingress.


Edit: Had I read all the responses carefully, I would have seen that this was already answered by our man Dave..  :-[  Attention to detail, Ian, attention to detail..  ;D


actually, you did a GREAT job, and added a detail that i'd missed before - that the interior of the watch was pre-pressurized with air prior to immersion.  NOW I get it, thanks!
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Offline Lampson

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2011, 02:10:17 AM »

Stunning  :great:  How about the alarm?

Quote from: TheTigerUK on July 17, 2011, 07:40:12 PM
This one is the Diving Belle :)


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Offline nikidasi

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2011, 02:57:47 AM »
Quote from: DaveS on July 17, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
I know what you mean John. 
I've also got a tester but so far I've only used it on one watch - An H558 Arnie.  It also passed with flying colours BTW.  It just  somehow seems unnatural, even for divers, to dunk them in water!
In reply to Spencer, the water will only infiltrate the movement if you allow the pressure to fall to atnospheric.  If there is a leak in the gaskets, the inside of the watch will have reached 6 bar (or whatever the test pressure is) of air.  Then, as you slowly decrease the pressure (in water) the air will escape from the watch and you can see the bubbles escaping.  As long as air is escaping, water can't get in.  You have to lift the watch above the surface of the water before you depressurise it.
Hope that makes sense?
Kind regards
Dave


Hi Dave,


Thanks for the info. Now I understand how it works.
So, does it mean we are in fact testing the watch for "airtightness" instead of "watertightness"?
My guess is, if a watch is airtight up to certain pressure, then we can safely say it will be watertight up to that pressure too.


Regards,
Indera
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Offline JohnN

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 03:10:39 AM »
 :bravo_2:
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Offline thanapa

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 06:28:22 AM »
Thanks for the lesson, John. Have always wondered how it worked! ^-^

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Offline StartSomething

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 04:32:53 PM »
Sir Bentley,
 
many thanks for the pictorial & the lesson!
 
I have one more question, though: is air tightness really comparable to water tightness?
I am thinking of surface tension of water, which air of course does not have...
 
Again many thanks for spending a set of OEM parts on one of my many questions! :-)
 
Best,
Hermann
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Online TheTigerUK

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2011, 07:26:10 PM »
Quote from: StartSomething on July 19, 2011, 04:32:53 PM

 
I have one more question, though: is air tightness really comparable to water tightness?
I am thinking of surface tension of water, which air of course does not have...
 


In all honesty i have no idea Herman !! :)
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Online TheTigerUK

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2011, 07:26:56 PM »
Quote from: Lampson on July 18, 2011, 02:10:17 AM
Stunning  :great:  How about the alarm?

Thanks,

the alarm and all other functions worked as they were meant to :)
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Offline DaveS

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2011, 11:23:55 PM »
Quote from: StartSomething on July 19, 2011, 04:32:53 PM
Sir Bentley,
 
many thanks for the pictorial & the lesson!
 
I have one more question, though: is air tightness really comparable to water tightness?
I am thinking of surface tension of water, which air of course does not have...
 
Again many thanks for spending a set of OEM parts on one of my many questions! :-)
 
Best,
Hermann

Is air tightness really comparable to water tightness?
 
A water molocule (comprising of 3 atoms) is bigger than a nitrogen molocule (2 atoms) which makes up about 80% of the air.  So, if the watch is impermeable to air (80% nitrogen) then it will be impermeable to water.
Considering that water is a liquid ie lots of water molocules bonded together (by hydrogen bonding) this will make it even more difficult for a water molocule to permeate into the watch case.
 
So in simplistic terms, if air can't get in then water can't get in.  What I don't know is what the correlation is between the air test pressure and the equivalent hydraulic test pressure.  I shall have to consult one of my engineering colleagues.
 
Kind regards
Dave

 
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Offline StartSomething

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 05:43:07 AM »
Quote from: DaveS on July 19, 2011, 11:23:55 PM

Is air tightness really comparable to water tightness?
 
A water molocule (comprising of 3 atoms) is bigger than a nitrogen molocule (2 atoms) which makes up about 80% of the air.  So, if the watch is impermeable to air (80% nitrogen) then it will be impermeable to water.
Considering that water is a liquid ie lots of water molocules bonded together (by hydrogen bonding) this will make it even more difficult for a water molocule to permeate into the watch case.
 
So in simplistic terms, if air can't get in then water can't get in.  What I don't know is what the correlation is between the air test pressure and the equivalent hydraulic test pressure.  I shall have to consult one of my engineering colleagues.
 

Well said Dave, these things were exactly what got me thinking...
 
Best,
Hermann
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Offline wielingab

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Re: Just for Herman (Waterproofing) :)
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 04:54:38 PM »
Quote from: nikidasi on July 18, 2011, 02:57:47 AM

Hi Dave,


Thanks for the info. Now I understand how it works.
So, does it mean we are in fact testing the watch for "airtightness" instead of "watertightness"?
My guess is, if a watch is airtight up to certain pressure, then we can safely say it will be watertight up to that pressure too.


Regards,
Indera


It got me wondering also, I have tested watches with this method also and so far no watch failed. But looking at the periodic chart of the elements, H = number 1 and O is number 8, So Thinking, water is H2O, thus 2 and 8 is 10 and oxygen is O2, thus 8 + 8 = 16, thus more heavier and thus bigger.


I believe it's still a good test, it shows seals which are really broken and leaking. For a better test, is actually submerging the case (without the movement) and test it under pressure in water.


Bart
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