Rolex vs Seiko - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 01-17-2017, 01:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Rolex vs Seiko

So I've been itching for a Rolex Sub or Datejust lately but I love Japanese made stuff and never really buy European for no reason really. What would be the Seiko equivalent of these two models and what are your personal opinions about each brands respective quality, movement, and value?
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Not too much to say about it really.

It's common knowledge and evident that Seiko offers excellent quality, movements and value.

Rolex on the other hand offers excellent quality and movements but with a significant cost difference which for most may not translate to great value.

The SKX007K2 has similar design language to the Rolex Sub and is a fully pedigreed diver at a fraction of the cost. Numerous similar comparisons have been made in the past. You'll have to check them out and decide for yourself.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Seiko's modern answer to the Rolex Sub was/is the Seiko SBGA029 Spring Drive 200m Air Diver. This was mine.

In virtually all departments it beats the Rolex Sub. The Spring Drive movement is more accurate by a country mile, the bezel is a more advanced construction, the dial is superior, the detail and finish are superior and up until the latest generation of Subs, the bracelet and clasp were also superior. I really enjoyed mine and if I had to choose today between the Seiko and the Sub I'd take the Seiko.

But "best" is subjective and the Sub is simply a classic that can't be ignored. If we think about how many Subs have sold over the years Rolex got that watch spot on in many respects and a recent survey in the UK showed the Sub to be the most desired watch among men. Having said that, ask the average Joe on the street if they've ever heard of a Seiko Air Diver and you'll get a look much akin to a cow chewing it's cud.

The reason I eventually sold mine was the same reason I sold my MM300 and MM600. I absolutely loathe the blingy Seiko bracelets with a passion. Call me what you like but my brain can't get past those little shiny links and eventually they drive me insane enough to bail out altogether.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Well, some Net sites say the SARB035 is a datejust-killer.

If you ask me though, there are several Seikos which more closely resemble the Datejust:

SNXJ89 for modern seikos
7009-3110 for vintage classic datejusts I mean Seikos (except for the Cyclops)
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thank you all for the input.

So Sub vs SBGA029 and datejust vs SARB035... Quality is comparable, movement is surpassed with the seiko, and value is skewed because rolexes cost more. How about physical durability. My sub would be a daily watch and I work with many who wear them daily as well. I would assume the SBGA029 would hold up just as well? What about the titanium version?
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thank you all for the input.

So Sub vs SBGA029 and datejust vs SARB035... Quality is comparable, movement is surpassed with the seiko, and value is skewed because rolexes cost more. How about physical durability. My sub would be a daily watch and I work with many who wear them daily as well. I would assume the SBGA029 would hold up just as well? What about the titanium version?
Both the steel and Ti versions will hold up fine. In fact, you're less likely to scratch the bezel of the Seiko than you are the Sub. Ti is light, robust and looks good up until the point when you scratch it. I've always found it marks fairly easy from standard desk diving and the marks show up more because of the darker colour. The steel version is a lot heavier so it depends on how you use the watch and if you prefer a weighty watch or a light one. Have a look at the version with the deep blue dial. It wasn't out when I bought mine but had it been I might well have bought it.

The new Sub clasps are very nice now and better than that of the Seiko. When I had my Seiko that wasn't the case. The clasp on the Seiko is OK but could be a lot better for a watch of that value.

In all the time I owned my Air Diver, about a year I think, it didn't lose or gain a second in time. It was always just spot on. And really, that's what a watch is supposed to do or at least aspire to do. My two Seiko Spring Drives were the only two watches that I've owned that ever pulled it off, though.
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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And how about resale value? Seems Rolexes retain or gain value through time (condition depending), can the same be said about high end Seiko?
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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And how about resale value? Seems Rolexes retain or gain value through time (condition depending), can the same be said about high end Seiko?
well if we compare vintage quartz to rolex its a laugh. Rolex will always keep its value just because it is Rolex.
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Something's missing in the posts above, and that is the a priori that a standard (non-GS) Seiko and a Rolex are to be compared in the first place. With the exception of Grand Seiko they are in different watch classes, just like a 7-Series BMW compares to a Lexus LS but it does not compare to a Lexus GS even though the GS is still one helluva car. Class entries are compared to compared other class entries. Otherwise there would be no need for classes.

With that out of the way, my Rolex Datejust is just superb. Nothing is amiss. It keeps insanely great time in all positions, weather, state of winding, regardless of whether I am golfing with it on or sitting watching TV, etc. For the first 2 years it was within 1 second per day regardless of anything. Now it is "up to 2 - 3 seconds per day" but on the timegrapher it is 0.0 ms beat error in all 6 positions and reads 1 spd sitting still. It maintains resale value very well. It is an instantly recognizable timepiece. And rugged beyond belief.

My Grand Seiko Spring Drive clearly keeps even better time but it has a microprocessor inside braking the gear train instead of an escapement so it should. It too has impeccable fit and finish. The GS Mechanicals do not keep any better or worse time than a Caliber 3135 Rolex or their new one in the new larger 40 mm Datejusts.

Resale wise any GS takes a huge hit. Maybe 50% MSRP after 2 years. Get a new Rolex and you'll get back 75% for the next 5 years if you don't bang up the case and it won't drop to 50% until it's 10 years old.

Come service time the Seiko will cost a king's ransom for the movement with no other work done. Th Rolex will also cost a tidy sum if you send to the Service Centers (but they do a complete case and bracelet refurb and it looks brand new when you get it back) or go find any reputable decent real watchmaker and he'll do it for less than the GS service cost.

Finally - do not buy one or the other based on comparing them - but the one that sings to you. Wear both of them at the dealers. Feel the comfort and weigh what matters to you. If you'll never sell resale value is moot. If you plan to flip it's huge. The bracelets are very different. The Datejust has a Zillion dial choices in the catalog go order what you want and any decent Rolex dealer won't obligate you to buy it if you agree to buy another instead.

And yes, SEIKO totally competes with Rolex in the world of high-end timepeices but please don't compare an SKX007 to a Rolex Submariner. It's a silly comparison. Like saying your loaded Camry is as nice as your neighbor's Mercedes C-class. They are both smooth and quiet and loaded with goodies and you are entitled to genuinely prefer the Camry but only a fool would say they are equal rides.

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Old 01-18-2017, 09:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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And yes, SEIKO totally competes with Rolex in the world of high-end timepeices but please don't compare an SKX007 to a Rolex Submariner. It's a silly comparison. Like saying your loaded Camry is as nice as your neighbor's Mercedes C-class. They are both smooth and quiet and loaded with goodies and you are entitled to genuinely prefer the Camry but only a fool would say they are equal rides.
In fairness, Jon, we're comparing an SBGA029 to a Sub. The former is a 6k watch over here so it's not exactly apples and oranges.

For me, where the big difference lies is not in the technical differences of the watch, the quality or the aesthetics, much of which is subjective. The big difference is that, for many, the importance is all in the name. The Rolex Sub and Datejust, exactly as you said above, are instantly recognisable and certain people will attach a status and label to you when they see you wearing one.

I guess you then have to decide whether you care about that, like it, dislike it, need it or are appalled by it.

If we think about this purely on technical merit, the "real" goal of a watch is to accurately tell the time. So if two watches can do this equally reliably then the one with the best time-keeping ought to be our choice. On this one the SBGA029 wins.

But of course looks are also important. That's so subjective we may as well simply label that one a draw.

Quality-wise, I've owned them all and preferred the new style Sub bracelet and clasp to the SBGA029 in terms of quality. The SBGA029 won on dial, bezel and hands. Couldn't see any difference quality-wise between the two cases so let's call this one a draw, too.

Re-sale value, Rolex will always win here because it appeals to a much broader market and they raise their prices circa 10% per year.

Last category: instantly recognisable status symbol. Rolex wins hands down but only if you want that and associate with the kind of people who place an importance in that. Here the Seiko wins for me but I've been called an inverted snob for saying as much..

(Do read all of the above with a tongue placed loosely in one cheek.)
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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That was @Reflex who wants the SKX to have similarities to the Submariner.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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That was @Reflex who wants the SKX to have similarities to the Submariner.
Right then.. Let me go find a can opener to help get the foot out of my mouth.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Continuing on the subject of resale. How important is it that the watch comes with box and papers come time to put back on the market? Is it really that important given that the watch is authentic and verifiable via a dealer?
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Old 01-18-2017, 01:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Continuing on the subject of resale. How important is it that the watch comes with box and papers come time to put back on the market? Is it really that important given that the watch is authentic and verifiable via a dealer?
It's important to both but particularly important to a Rolex. A Rolex without box and papers probably automatically loses 10-20% of it's value.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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why not Rolex AND Seiko? Here are my two favorites. I asked a very pretty intern to take the picture.





and by the way, I am equally passionate about them (the watches, not the intern) both.

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Old 01-18-2017, 08:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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sorry guys. I should have rotated the picture before posting. Can it be done through edit, Moderators? I'll just post the correct picture. Sorry!!
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"I like what a father said to his son when he gave him a watch that had been handed down through generations. He said "I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire, which will fit your individual needs no better than it did mine or my father's before me, I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you may forget it for a moment now and then and not spend all of your breath trying to conquer it." - Dale from The Walking Dead

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Old 01-18-2017, 08:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Continuing on the subject of resale. How important is it that the watch comes with box and papers come time to put back on the market? Is it really that important given that the watch is authentic and verifiable via a dealer?
I have never been fortunate enough to acquire a vintage Seiko with its original box and papers. I guess not many of those who purchased theirs long ago kept the box, etc.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I have never been fortunate enough to acquire a vintage Seiko with its original box and papers. I guess not many of those who purchased theirs long ago kept the box, etc.
Because of the need to authenticate a Rolex, not having it's papers devalues it. With a Seiko you rarely ever see the papers because it wasn't important to maintain them and authentication papers were often not even issued with Seikos and cheaper watches.

With boxes we're into collector mode. For a collector the box always adds value, whether we're talking a vintage Rolex or a vintage toy. The difference is, the lack of a box doesn't detract from the overall market value of the watch itself. The presence of the box simply adds a premium to the general market value.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The relative merits of the 2 brands have been well covered but my only addition would be to reiterate that Grand Seiko for all it's merits is far less known than Rolex. Therefore if intending to flip you need to accept a greater depreciation for Grand Seiko. Having said that I would buy a Seiko GS Quartz purely for the beautiful case work and the extreme accuracy ( if funds allowed) YMMV.

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Old 02-16-2017, 08:11 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I repair both. Rolex uses better materials, engineering and machining. As a result, I can service a 30 year old 3035 which has been moderately abused...replace parts as needed...and return the performance to as new. On the whole, Seiko drivers are not much on periodic maintenance. Seiko mainspring barrels are deplorable...chief issues being wear in the arbor and its bearing surfaces with the barrel and cap...as well as wear in in the bearing surface of the bridge and (to a lesser extent) mainplate. This robs power and kills amplitude. Good luck finding new replacement parts (eg. barrels for 7S26)...and if you do, the machining tolerances only assure you Seiko's consumer grade accuracy guarantee of -20/+45 s/d...although we usually see better than this...but rarely -4/+6 (as with Rolex). GS is an improvement...but why pay that kind of money for the Seiko label...which consumers consider to be Ford/Chevy quality? Best value...used Rolex...(preferably) with box/papers...3135 movement. Plan on service every 5 years @ about $350 from independent watchmaker (and choose carefully). Regards, BG
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:36 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Thank you BenchGuy, exactly what I was looking for...
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I repair both. Rolex uses better materials, engineering and machining. As a result, I can service a 30 year old 3035 which has been moderately abused...replace parts as needed...and return the performance to as new. On the whole, Seiko drivers are not much on periodic maintenance. Seiko mainspring barrels are deplorable...chief issues being wear in the arbor and its bearing surfaces with the barrel and cap...as well as wear in in the bearing surface of the bridge and (to a lesser extent) mainplate. This robs power and kills amplitude. Good luck finding new replacement parts (eg. barrels for 7S26)...and if you do, the machining tolerances only assure you Seiko's consumer grade accuracy guarantee of -20/+45 s/d...although we usually see better than this...but rarely -4/+6 (as with Rolex). GS is an improvement...but why pay that kind of money for the Seiko label...which consumers consider to be Ford/Chevy quality? Best value...used Rolex...(preferably) with box/papers...3135 movement. Plan on service every 5 years @ about $350 from independent watchmaker (and choose carefully). Regards, BG
Agree with the technical remarks but comparing 7S26 to Rolex makes zero sense. Can only compare Rolex to Grand Seiko, did you ever worked on any of these?
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:39 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Agree with the technical remarks but comparing 7S26 to Rolex makes zero sense. Can only compare Rolex to Grand Seiko, did you ever worked on any of these?
Yes...and impressed with some calibers...although they are not as inherently service friendly. The vast majority of Seiko's are under-achievers compared to Rolex...and I believe the thread is titled "Rolex vs Seiko"?

You have to ask yourself if it is ignorance or arrogance...but why does Seiko market $2000+ watches under (almost) the same name (Grand Seiko) as $200 watches (Seiko)? I would have a SpringDrive in my own stable...(which is mostly composed of movements I consider to be technologically significant)...but for the fact it is $2000+ and bears the name SEIKO...

At least Rolex had the good sense to market it's consumer grade as Tudor... Then there is that chicken/egg thing...the high end brand...Rolex...was developed first...then Tudor was rolled out in 1946.

You sell a lot of consumer grade products if their heritage to luxury is conveyed in an appealing way. Developing a luxury brand from a consumer heritage...???...not good marketing psychology...

As for the issues of serviceability, retained value, durability and performance...don't expect me to acquiesce. And the interesting thing is that I'm not necessarily a champion of Rolex...go figure...

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Old 02-17-2017, 07:58 AM   #24 (permalink)
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You have to ask yourself if it is ignorance or arrogance...but why does Seiko market $2000+ watches under (almost) the same name (Grand Seiko) as $200 watches (Seiko)? I would have a SpringDrive in my own stable...(which is mostly composed of movements I consider to be technologically significant)...but for the fact it is $2000+ and bears the name SEIKO...
I suspect that the reason is simply that it has always been like that and it works for them. Seiko traditionally used a lot of brand names and GS is just one. There is no distinct technical separation and even the other names or lines are mixed or used liberally, like Prospex, Presage, etc.

The OP simply asked which particular Seiko is comparable to a certain Rolex. Going beyond that and insisting in comparing the brands across the line is a bit silly considering that 99% of Seikos of any age and type are much less valuable that any Rolex. Watches and money go hand in hand all the time but sometime people likes to forget that.

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Old 02-17-2017, 09:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Very interesting, the comments.
Although, the main similarities is that they are both divers, I would nominate the mm300 to be the sub counterpart. It's quintessential, a staple of the brand. Of course not as well known, but similarly transcends its genre and brand's customer base.

As for the Datejust, it would have to be a grand seiko dress watch, which I've never owned one. Settling on a datejust is pretty simple compared to a grand seiko which has so many models, variants, LE's, movements,. etc. Its as confusing to me as looking into Panerai
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